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Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

theatlantic.com

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Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#31

Post by jey »

derefr wrote: post #9
revelation wrote: post #4

Donepezil is a cholinesterase inhibitor, meaning it increases the amount of acetylcholine circulating around nerve endings. They just casually put that there, but I don't think most readers will be exactly familiar with what that means? It's basically raising the baselevel of what is one of the most common neurotransmitters. It's a carpet-bomb, not the targeted strike the article makes it out to be.

If I recall, isn't caffeine (effectively) an cholinesterase inhibitor?

No, it's primarily an adenosine antagonist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Mechanism_of_action

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#32

Post by derefr »

jey wrote: post #31
derefr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall, isn't caffeine (effectively) an cholinesterase inhibitor?

No, it's primarily an adenosine antagonist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Mechanism_of_action

Right, that's why I said "effectively": caffeine inhibits adenosine from inhibiting cholinesterase (which itself inhibits acetylcholine.) Isn't biology fun?

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#33

Post by danieltillett »

aaren wrote: post #23
roywiggins wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language is completely different for kids. They don't so much learn language as acquire* it- it's not, generally, effortful. They just do it. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_acquisition Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period_hypothesis

Wikipedia distinguishes between first and second language acquisition (FLA, SLA). FLA is done by children. SLA is done by children and adults. The critical period hypothesis is that SLA is age dependent and can only be done properly as a child. However "The critical period hypothesis is the subject of a long-standing debate in linguistics and language acquisition over the extent to which the ability to acquire langua…

FLA is most definitely age dependent. There have have been a couple of real sad cases where this has been tested - the case of 'Genie' is the most famous[0].

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#35

Post by WildUtah »

roywiggins wrote: post #18
b6 wrote: post #11

> children younger than about 7 can pick up new skills, like language and music, much faster than adults can. I don't think this is true. I think a determined adult learns faster.

Language is completely different for kids. They don't so much learn language as acquire* it- it's not, generally, effortful. They just do it. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_acquisition Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period_hypothesis

I have observed several children acquiring a first language. They struggle with pronunciation, repeat themselves again and again trying to get words right, mimic, ask for help, and generally work their little butts off. There's nothing effortless about it.

I've also seen many adults acquire second languages and fail to do so. I have also learned to speak a second language fluently as an adult myself.

My hypothesis is that adults' greater difficulty in learning a language is mostly based in fear of failure, social embarrassment, the vulnerability of asking for help, and the necessary process of making a fool of yourself along the way. Children are unafraid to blunder repeatedly until they get it right.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#36

Post by jey »

derefr wrote: post #32
jey wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's primarily an adenosine antagonist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Mechanism_of_action

Right, that's why I said "effectively": caffeine inhibits adenosine from inhibiting cholinesterase (which itself inhibits acetylcholine.) Isn't biology fun?

That may be true, but the difference is that caffeine doesn't inhibit cholinesterase across the board.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#37

Post by Thasc »

auctiontheory wrote: post #25
tomstokes wrote: post #13

Before anyone considers experimenting with Donepezil or other acetylcholinesterase inhibitors in hopes of enhancing their learning, it should be noted that there are plenty of unknowns and a few serious concerns around altering the cholinesterase levels of otherwise healthy adults. Briefly: Acetylcholinesterase terminates acetylcholine neurotransmission events by deactivating the acetylcholine, allowing it to be reus…

Don't give up - there is help. Reach out to your local chapter of Sesquipedalians Anonymous.

Out of curiosity, what simpler term would you instead use for 'acetylcholinesterase inhibitor'?

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#38

Post by camillomiller »

b6 wrote: post #11

> children younger than about 7 can pick up new skills, like language and music, much faster than adults can. I don't think this is true. I think a determined adult learns faster.

I think that the physiological base of the common notion that kids are usually sponge-brained can't be really at stake.

But, you are right, nobody seems to take into consideration the very special situation in which kids find themselves: if a determined adult is let free to study and apply himself to a craft, 8 hours a day, without the need to provide or take care of others, without any need to think about money, mortgages and paying the bills... What would happen?

People like that exist and they are the proof that you can actually learn and be proficient even when you're older.

Professional soccer star Marco Van Basten retired when he was 32. He went on to become a golf champion and, incredibly enough, a backgammon champion.

Professional italian musician Franco Battiato never took up a brush in his life. Years ago he decided that he had to become a good painter and he went on to do it.

These are two examples I recall, but I think I made my point sufficiently clear: if you have the time, the resources, the commitment you can probably make a little talent flourish even in you late decades.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#39

Post by amirmc »

patriciawright wrote: post #2

I'm always amazed how we don't look at our diets before resorting to drugs to treat conditions. What you eat has the largest effect on your brain chemistry.

I thoroughly agree with the second sentence but by putting it together with the first, it's as though you're claiming we can treat medical conditions just by changing diets (which I disagree with -- but I don't think you deserve the downvotes you seem to be getting).

What you eat absolutely affects brain chemistry. Eg friends of mine in grad school were studying depression via tryptophan depletion. They'd give volunteers a homemade protein drink which would reliably knock down serotonin levels. In other words, a milkshake that made you depressed. No drugs required.

Re: Toward a Pill That Helps Us Learn as Fast as Kids

#40

Post by sizzle »

catshirt wrote: post #24
sizzle wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember learning about a study in a neuroscience class regarding language and how, before the critical period in a child's mind, they could learn many languages because their brain had not settled on any one particular language. The "shape" of words (word length, voxels, parts of speech etc) effectively became hard coded in their minds after the critical period ended so they could easily recognize that language, b…

this sibling comment seems to be a good start: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7491549

thank you, I'll find the peer reviewed paper in the Wikipedia footnotesm
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