Live data from Hacker News

Inclusiveness at Mozilla

brendaneich.com

31–40 of 196 posts

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#31
post #11

He just wanted to take an opportunity to "express [..] sorrow at having caused pain." Eich does not regret his actions, he's just sorry that you felt pain because of the things he did. Classic business-ese non-apology.

Question I would ask Brendan Eich: Should gay people be allowed to get married, and if not, why?

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#32
If he stays as CEO then Mozilla will remain a tainted company IMHO. The last thing an open source company wants to do is alienate vast swaths of their contributor base.

And what happens when that base leaves? You're basically left with a bunch of conservative, white guys (Lets be brutally honest) who hate gay people and god knows what else. My view has always been that racists are homophobes and homophobes think women should know their place. In a tech world trying to be more inclusive of all these groups this will cause Mozilla huge damage.

Talk about handing the keys of the castle to your competitors! I'm sure Facebook, Google et al will be itching to hire some good Mozilla devs!

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#33
Eich's personal stance on marriage now cannot have an impact on his role, or he will be at heavy odds with this blog post and the public opinion of many Mozilla works to include. He will be under scrutiny as long as he remains CEO.

Admitting a sudden change of heart would have zero effect on Mozilla. I'm not sure what result people are expecting otherwise, but if the workplace environment he describes in this post is satisfactory, what more can be changed?

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#34
post #21
post #11

He just wanted to take an opportunity to "express [..] sorrow at having caused pain." Eich does not regret his actions, he's just sorry that you felt pain because of the things he did. Classic business-ese non-apology.

How is that not saying he's sorry he hurt people? I don't understand what you are having a problem with.

"I'm sorry you got hurt" is not the same as "I'm sorry for punching you in the face".

And it's even further from "I'm sorry for punching you in the face. I was wrong to do that."

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#35

I'm happy he said something. He didn't have to.

Unfortunately, he did have to.

Eich holds an opinion that, while apparently shared with the majority of Californian voters (as per Prop 8 results), is deeply unpopular with segments of the technical population.

These are some of the folks who will help promote and test Mozilla's future releases. They are part of Mozilla's customer base. He had to apologize, because these days holding a politically incorrect opinion is unacceptable.

And as demonstrated in this very thread, even his apology isn't enough for some.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#36
post #18

I have commented on this issue before [0]. I've been thinking about this again. After reading this I think he still stands to his opinion, that he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong. Obviously he's an idiot, but I think even idiots are entitled to their opinion as long as it doesn't interfere with his work at mozilla . I think that is also what he's trying to say with his blog post. I think he made it pretty cle…

As a CEO, you live, breathe and sleep for the company. While the personal/professional division can be easily made for an employee far down on the org chart who does his job for 8 hours and then goes home, can the same be done for a top level executive, let alone the CEO?

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#37
post #21
post #11

He just wanted to take an opportunity to "express [..] sorrow at having caused pain." Eich does not regret his actions, he's just sorry that you felt pain because of the things he did. Classic business-ese non-apology.

How is that not saying he's sorry he hurt people? I don't understand what you are having a problem with.

There is a difference between apologizing for your behavior and apologizing for the way people react to it. One implies accountability, the other does not.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#38
post #11

He just wanted to take an opportunity to "express [..] sorrow at having caused pain." Eich does not regret his actions, he's just sorry that you felt pain because of the things he did. Classic business-ese non-apology.

Question I would ask Brendan Eich: Should gay people be allowed to get married, and if not, why?

Why? Why does his opinion on that private political matter, over which he has almost no control matter to you? Would you ask him who he voted for? If he thought the war in Iraq was justified? If he believes in abortion rights? If he thinks there is a god?

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#39
post #17

I think this is 95% satisfactory. It's unreasonable to demand that someone change their mind about something (and would you believe it if he claimed he had?), but it's imperative to be sure that his personal opinion will not bleed into his executive function. He knows he's outnumbered, and on the wrong side of history. But he recognizes that he can't change himself on demand. It's the best we can hope for in an hones…

Agreed, if he instead claimed that he changed his beliefs as a result of public opinion, he'd have come across as either weak-minded or a liar.

It's satisfactory as long as he doesn't abuse his position of power to impose or further his personal political/religious beliefs within Mozilla.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#40
post #30

He is sorry like the NSA is sorry you found out what they've been doing. Brendan Eich doesn't just dislike gays getting married. He hates the concept so much he officially donated to prevent it from being possible. I'm sorry, but I don't sympathize with the argument that he's "entitled to his opinions," because it's more than that. Nevermind that he's now CEO of Mozilla. (I personally don't care if gays can get marri…

I haven't seen a single grain of evidence in support of the claim that Brendan Eich hates gay people. He said it himself, "the donation does not in itself constitute evidence of animosity." And I can stand behind him on that. I'm gay and I also find the cultural crusade for gay marriage objectionable. I more go along with the views of the Against Equality group. But since it appears that gay marriage is going to happ…

If he doesn't hate gay people, then why not just make his position on marriage clear? He can straight up say "I don't believe in marriage" or whatever.
Post reply on HN