Who Needs a Boss? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#31

Post by beat » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 2:58 PM UTC

binxbolling wrote: post #29

fennecfoxen wrote: post #23

Worker-owned coops are the kind of Communism that a capitalist can really get behind. Good show. Also, Arizmendi Bakery is in fact delicious.

Except in communism it'd be the community (or, commune) that'd own the business. Since this is worker-owned, it's closer to syndicalism than communism (or socialism).

Lovely bit of history... the anarcho-syndicalists were the third element of the Spanish Civil War. And if there's one thing the fascists and communists could agree on, it was that both hated the anarchists more than they hated each other. Unfortunately, when you organize at the level of a farm or a factory, you're no match for an enemy that can throw 1000 troops at you in order to crush you. Noam Chomsky's history of the Spanish Civil War is an insightful and depressing read. :(

I worry about coops in the business world for the same reason. They have limited defense against massive corporations that decide they are enemies. But that's true of any small business.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#32

Post by ap22213 » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 2:59 PM UTC

fennecfoxen wrote: post #23

Worker-owned coops are the kind of Communism that a capitalist can really get behind. Good show. Also, Arizmendi Bakery is in fact delicious.

Owner-owned corporations are the kind of Feudalism that a capitalist can really get behind.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#33

Post by beat » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 3:00 PM UTC

My children attended a charter high school run as a teacher's co-op - no principal or formal administration. It works very well, although I'm not sure it would scale as a model. Certainly, I've never seen such high levels of teacher satisfaction anywhere else, and I'm sure the cost of a principal and assistant principal easily funds three more teachers - a big deal at a small school.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#34

Post by arethuza » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 3:16 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #31

binxbolling wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except in communism it'd be the community (or, commune) that'd own the business. Since this is worker-owned, it's closer to syndicalism than communism (or socialism).

Lovely bit of history... the anarcho-syndicalists were the third element of the Spanish Civil War. And if there's one thing the fascists and communists could agree on, it was that both hated the anarchists more than they hated each other. Unfortunately, when you organize at the level of a farm or a factory, you're no match for an enemy that can throw 1000 troops at you in order to crush you. Noam Chomsky's history of…

Some employee-owned companies are pretty big - the John Lewis Partnership here in the UK has revenue of ~£10 billion and 91,000 employees.

What I find amusing about John Lewis is that although they are employee owned they are actually a key part of respectable middle class life - even more so their upscale Waitrose supermarket chain which has close links to the Royals (the Duchy Originals brand was started by the Prince of Wales and is now exclusive to Waitrose).

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#35

Post by TrainedMonkey » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 3:17 PM UTC

candybar wrote: post #9

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else find media sites remapping left/right arrow keys to mean "move to previous/next article" completely annoying?

Constantly hitting this problem on thinkpad when using nub and middle mouse button to scroll.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#36

Post by mrkipling » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 3:18 PM UTC

candybar wrote: post #9

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else find media sites remapping left/right arrow keys to mean "move to previous/next article" completely annoying?

Yes, I find it immensely annoying. I don't see the benefit.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#37

Post by Retric » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 3:23 PM UTC

sasvari wrote: post #2

The Basque Mondragon Corporation [0] is actually very impressive: It is the seventh-largest Spanish company in terms of asset turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country. At the end of 2012, it employed 80,321 people in 289 companies and organizations in four areas of activity: finance, industry, retail and knowledge. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

Long term I have wondered if co-op will end up dominating less capital intensive businesses. The downside is an inability to raise outside capital however they don't need to fund profits which allows them to operate on leaner margins which could presumably push out traditional businesses and simply grow.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#38

Post by gdubs » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 3:36 PM UTC

candybar wrote: post #9

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone else find media sites remapping left/right arrow keys to mean "move to previous/next article" completely annoying?

Particularly when it uses up the free articles remaining for the month...

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#39

Post by toomuchtodo » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 4:01 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #37

sasvari wrote: post #2

The Basque Mondragon Corporation [0] is actually very impressive: It is the seventh-largest Spanish company in terms of asset turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country. At the end of 2012, it employed 80,321 people in 289 companies and organizations in four areas of activity: finance, industry, retail and knowledge. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

Long term I have wondered if co-op will end up dominating less capital intensive businesses. The downside is an inability to raise outside capital however they don't need to fund profits which allows them to operate on leaner margins which could presumably push out traditional businesses and simply grow.

As technology moves forward, all businesses slowly become non-capital intensive businesses.

Re: Who Needs a Boss?

#40

Post by Spooky23 » Tue, Mar 25, 2014, 4:02 PM UTC

aestra wrote: post #20

>Meanwhile, credit unions — another form of cooperative — face stringent regulations on business lending. This was thrown as an aside, but I'm wondering what they exactly mean by that. What are these regulations? Are they government imposed or member imposed? What exactly do the regulations say? I wish the article didn't just throw out "there's regulations" without explaining what said regulations are and how they ef…

Credit unions are intended to be individually focused. I believe regulations limit total business lending to 10-15% of the credit union's assets.

I think the intention there is to avoid a "company store" situation when a bunch of employees fund a credit union, and end up loaning their money to their employer or favored business. If the employer goes bust, the Federal government is left holding the bag of paying back the depositors.