Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

steveburge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 65 posts

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#31

Post by mwfunk »

mwfunk wrote: post #21

There was no battle and there is no war. Different methodologies and philosophies surrounding software development have different pros and cons, which themselves change over time as the tech industry changes. If people want to choose to view the tech world through a filter that projects everything into some open source vs. proprietary software conflict, fine. There are many such filters though. Someone could have a s…

To backtrack a little on the last point, there are plenty of things in the world where the right thing to do is to fight against it- racism, ethnic cleansing, etc. But I just fundamentally, axiomatically do not see anything related to how software is written and distributed as being one of those things. Part of the reason this topic always leads to flamewars is that the core, fundamental disagreement ("is using and/or distributing proprietary software unethical or immoral?") always comes down to the debaters having different gut feelings about the issue that cannot be logically determined. It's similar to the abortion debate in that respect- someone who is convinced that all abortion is murder is not ever going to be convinced otherwise, because the topic descends into different people's axioms about morality that cannot be further decomposed into statements that can be logically debated.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#32

Post by ehsanu1 »

spindritf wrote: post #24
dave1010uk wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What application did you use to post that comment? Is it Open Source?

I posted from my laptop and used Aurora (Firefox) running on Ubuntu so... technically, yes but in a rather unsatisfying way.

Why is that unsatisfying? And why is it just "technically" open source, is it not open source in spirit as well?

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#33

Post by leoc »

saosebastiao wrote: post #17

Android is such a miserable experience that it has made me turn in my phone for the first closed-source computing device I have owned in 9 years. The latency on everything is at least 200-300ms, which makes typing consistently difficult (as if the moronic autocorrect didn't make it impossible anyways). The battery consumption is terrible (I have never been able to go more than 12 hours without a charge, and after a y…

I have an old Galaxy S2 banger running the Samsung official Android 4.1.2 and I hardly ever notice UI latency issues.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#34

Post by jcastro »

hhsnopek wrote: post #22
saosebastiao wrote: post #17

Android is such a miserable experience that it has made me turn in my phone for the first closed-source computing device I have owned in 9 years. The latency on everything is at least 200-300ms, which makes typing consistently difficult (as if the moronic autocorrect didn't make it impossible anyways). The battery consumption is terrible (I have never been able to go more than 12 hours without a charge, and after a y…

Not sure what android phone you were using, but my Nexus 4 has definitely provided an amazing android experience. Your phone must of been $50 because my latency close to none. Be smart and download apps that are trusted, not one of the thousand "flappy bird" clones that just give you ads. Also bloatware only gets on your phone if you put it there. I've removed all the carrier apps on my family's T-Mobile phones(all a…

I have a Nexus 4 and the experience isn't as nice as it should be. Though he's full of the hyperbole he has a point.

On my Nexus 4 (without carrier apps) I can't remove Chrome, Drive, Currents, Email, Gmail, Keep, Hangouts, Maps, Photos, Play Games, Play Movies and TV, Play Music, Play Newstand, News and Weather ... the list goes on and on. That adds up to a ton of space and clutters my menu. I want some of them, but I don't want some of the others, either way I'm stuck with them, which means I by default always need to get the more expensive phone with more storage because more and more things come with the phone, that's even _before_ a carrier touches it.

And both the UI performance and battery performance woes on Android phones has been well documented. I've had every flagship Nexus/Google phone since the G1 and battery life and performance are not getting better overall.

Every time they make an improvement in Android that improves battery life they just ship a thinner phone with a faster CPU. My G1, Nexus One, Nexus S, Nexus 4, always have lasted about a day. I don't own a Nexus 5 yet but have friends that do and they do the same thing I do - a house/car full of chargers and a battery pack for travel.

Don't get me wrong I still like my Android phone, I just don't love it.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#35

Post by spindritf »

ehsanu1 wrote: post #32
spindritf wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted from my laptop and used Aurora (Firefox) running on Ubuntu so... technically, yes but in a rather unsatisfying way.

Why is that unsatisfying? And why is it just "technically" open source, is it not open source in spirit as well?

Oh, yeah. Ubuntu and Firefox are completely and satisfyingly opensource but the answer isn't because I didn't use the very phone I was praising. Technically, I used an opensource app but not in a way that would support my point.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#36

Post by gress »

tluyben2 wrote: post #8
mindcrime wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The future of computing is on apps coded against one of two proprietary platforms: Apple's or Google's That's an overly narrow view that seems to equate all of "computing" with "smart phones / tablets". I don't think that's a very accurate view. A lot of what happens on computers has nothing to with either.

It's quite accurate for consumer computing though. I just don't see that Android is closed source in that way; the implementation you program against to make the software people use on their tablets/phones is Open Source. Same with ChromeOS. Not so with Windows or iOS or OS X.

Since you can't use that open source implementation to make Android devices, it's effectively just an SDK. Android itself is closed.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#37

Post by rayiner »

joshbaptiste wrote: post #27
saosebastiao wrote: post #17

Android is such a miserable experience that it has made me turn in my phone for the first closed-source computing device I have owned in 9 years. The latency on everything is at least 200-300ms, which makes typing consistently difficult (as if the moronic autocorrect didn't make it impossible anyways). The battery consumption is terrible (I have never been able to go more than 12 hours without a charge, and after a y…

Indeed... everything you posted is the exact opposite of my experience with stock Nexus 5 and my non-techie friends with their S5's and Galaxy Notes.

Anecdotal, but I've got a Nexus 5 and its substantially less stable than the Windows Phone I had before it, or the iPhone before that. Not full phone crashes, but a "Unfortunately, X app stopped" messages. I'm not a power user by any means, and I don't run anything more exotic than Yelp. So when I run into a bug with basic functionality, like cropping profile photos, its irritating. Also, battery life is shit, won't get through 24 hours with 4-5 hours of screen use, which my iPhone could (see Anandtech's benchmark where he measures LTE web browsing time, in which iPhone dominates despite its tiny battery). Its a good phone with a great screen, but the software stack just isn't as solid as WP which is itself less solid than iOS.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#38

Post by vezzy-fnord »

mwfunk wrote: post #31
mwfunk wrote: post #21

There was no battle and there is no war. Different methodologies and philosophies surrounding software development have different pros and cons, which themselves change over time as the tech industry changes. If people want to choose to view the tech world through a filter that projects everything into some open source vs. proprietary software conflict, fine. There are many such filters though. Someone could have a s…

To backtrack a little on the last point, there are plenty of things in the world where the right thing to do is to fight against it- racism, ethnic cleansing, etc. But I just fundamentally, axiomatically do not see anything related to how software is written and distributed as being one of those things. Part of the reason this topic always leads to flamewars is that the core, fundamental disagreement ("is using and/o…

But I just fundamentally, axiomatically do not see anything related to how software is written and distributed as being one of those things.

It's simple. I don't know about a "fundamental, axiomatic" proof, but the situation is that proprietary software is obscurantist in its nature and is in direct conflict with information dissemination and the openness that we herald our computing and the Internet as being so important for.

Our society is destined to be dominated by digital technology and computers. All facets of our lives will become digitized and as a result, the ones who control our computing control the way we live. Proprietary software is tantamount to slavery, where the users are helpless and unable to exert control over the technology that governs them.

Re: Open source has won the battle but is losing the war

#39

Post by woah »

knappador wrote: post #29

Linux is younger than I am. GNU is two years older than I am. Anyone making smart statements about the long-term prospects of a spontaneously organizing tidal wave erupting from a vacuum needs to take a step back, stop talking, and find something worth working on to them personally. Web is mostly a distraction for proponents of FOSS. Web developers consume the foundation of FOSS and, without moving past web developme…

Most web developers are not writing servers or browsers in C, but within the web ecosystem open source is really the only choice (to build with). There could be more people open sourcing their whole startups, but in terms of building blocks, open source reigns supreme in the world of web.

I mean, look at the HN frontpage on any given day. A good half of the posts will be about some new open source module or framework that someone has put hundreds of hours into. Closed frameworks are regularly scoffed at and treated with great suspicion. In the Node community, it is a common practice to open-source modules without giving it a second thought, just part of a day's work.

I'm not sure I really understand your point, could you explain?

Post reply on HN