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Medical Anarchy

chrispacia.wordpress.com

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31–40 of 76 posts

Re: Medical Anarchy

#31

Post by chimeracoder »

kevingadd wrote: post #27

I'm bothered that this article seems to believe that the rise in homeschooling (in large part by unqualified parents using low-quality textbooks and ill-considered strategies) is another example of people 'opting out' of some particular brand of oppression by the State, and that doing so will increase supply, or something? As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one…

> As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one their future will be a trainwreck. Just because they're largely minors doesn't, to me, mean that their parents have the right to deny them a future in favor of whatever their personal reasons may be. Yes, this is an infringement on the 'rights' of parents, but I don't think parents have the right to treat children like property in the first place.

I would really love to see tokenadult respond to this, because I know he has very strong (and informed) opinions on homeschooling.

Re: Medical Anarchy

#33

Post by kevingadd »

eurleif wrote: post #30
kevingadd wrote: post #27

I'm bothered that this article seems to believe that the rise in homeschooling (in large part by unqualified parents using low-quality textbooks and ill-considered strategies) is another example of people 'opting out' of some particular brand of oppression by the State, and that doing so will increase supply, or something? As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one…

>Just because they're largely minors doesn't, to me, mean that their parents have the right to deny them a future in favor of whatever their personal reasons may be. Yes, this is an infringement on the 'rights' of parents, but I don't think parents have the right to treat children like property in the first place. So the issue is that the parents are forcing a decision on the child, in violation of the child's rights…

That would be fine with me, but we have precedents establishing that minors are not well-equipped to make important decisions for themselves (at least until they're older). So I don't know if they can actually make that choice.

I know a couple kids who preferred homeschooling, but mostly because it was easier than going to school. That was to their detriment later on when they started college. I don't know if that makes it wrong, though. Education is definitely not one-size-fits-all.

You could make the libertarian/capitalist argument that if a child is really lazy and wants to do highly relaxed homeschooling that won't prepare them for college, that's fine, and they can just accept never having a good job or lifestyle, I guess? I don't really like that.

If the parent prefers homeschooling but doesn't have the time/energy to do it right, is that similarly fine? Or do they have an obligation to deliver their children an adequate education, just like they have an obligation to feed and care for them (otherwise the kids will be taken away)?

Re: Medical Anarchy

#34

Post by dragonwriter »

kevingadd wrote: post #27

I'm bothered that this article seems to believe that the rise in homeschooling (in large part by unqualified parents using low-quality textbooks and ill-considered strategies) is another example of people 'opting out' of some particular brand of oppression by the State, and that doing so will increase supply, or something? As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one…

> As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one their future will be a trainwreck. Just because they're largely minors doesn't, to me, mean that their parents have the right to deny them a future in favor of whatever their personal reasons may be.

Sounds like the solution is to: 1) Define what a "high quality education" means in terms that it is objectively measurable whether one is being provided to a child, 2) Assure that children, regardless of education venue (home, private, or public school) are receiving it.

Assuming that certain venues do provide a "high quality education" and that other venues do not -- in any direction -- doesn't seem particularly useful if that is a genuine concern rather than a superficial rationalization.

Re: Medical Anarchy

#35

Post by lotsofmangos »

pak wrote: post #28

Disclosure: I'm currently attending medical school in New York. It seems incredibly irresponsible for a doctor to prescribe things based on an internet conversation without a physical exam. You can't auscultate (listen to with a stethoscope), visually inspect, run labs, do basic imaging, etc. over an anonymous internet forum, which are basic facilities that anybody should expect a doctor in the US to utilize. It is p…

I think attempts like this are symptoms of something really badly broken. It obviously isn't a good solution, but for anyone to even be thinking of seriously implementing it speaks volumes.

Re: Medical Anarchy

#36

Post by final_approach »

pak wrote: post #28

Disclosure: I'm currently attending medical school in New York. It seems incredibly irresponsible for a doctor to prescribe things based on an internet conversation without a physical exam. You can't auscultate (listen to with a stethoscope), visually inspect, run labs, do basic imaging, etc. over an anonymous internet forum, which are basic facilities that anybody should expect a doctor in the US to utilize. It is p…

I just can't help but see the other side: on the internet, a doctor is not rushed to draw any conclusions: hey may casually read a question, see the photos, ask additional questions - all the while having enough time to think through the problem. Do you think this might actually be the upside of internet-based healthcare or am I exaggerating?

Re: Medical Anarchy

#37

Post by kevingadd »

dragonwriter wrote: post #34
kevingadd wrote: post #27

I'm bothered that this article seems to believe that the rise in homeschooling (in large part by unqualified parents using low-quality textbooks and ill-considered strategies) is another example of people 'opting out' of some particular brand of oppression by the State, and that doing so will increase supply, or something? As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one…

> As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one their future will be a trainwreck. Just because they're largely minors doesn't, to me, mean that their parents have the right to deny them a future in favor of whatever their personal reasons may be. Sounds like the solution is to: 1) Define what a "high quality education" means in terms that it is objectively measurable…

The point is not that homeschooling provides a lower quality education than public schools (though I would argue that, on average, it does) - the point is that homeschooling is being done by unqualified people using unverified, quickly-considered techniques, while public schooling is at least largely done by people who got teaching certifications and their methods get public scrutiny.

To me, the amount of criticism public schools receive is an indicator of their worthiness - people are able to inspect the education and intervene directly if they feel it is inadequate, and the government has the ability to provide useful oversight and assist in setting standards. I'm sure there are many cases where this centralization is to children's detriment, but at least it is a largely transparent system.

In comparison, the only real transparency provided into a homeschooled child's education is when they start college and have to find out whether they really learned enough essential skills and information to be able to compete in a real educational environment. If the answer is 'no', it's too late to do anything.

Objective measurements would be great, and so would more rigorous enforcement. Historically, homeschooling groups are against both.

Re: Medical Anarchy

#38

Post by aidenn0 »

wyager wrote: post #25
chimeracoder wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very loaded (but easy) question. In the United States, we fought an entire war over the question of whether or not a state had the authority to secede from the federal government (the Union). The seceding states lost that fight. It would be very hard to argue that individuals have that right when the states do not. You may wish that it were different, but the fact is that individuals do not have this right,…

>In the United States, we fought an entire war over the question of whether or not a state had the authority to secede from the federal government (the Union). The seceding states lost that fight. So wars decide what is right and what is wrong?

It's not about right and wrong, it's about what you can and can't do. If you do something and the US decides to go to war with you over it, you are SOL.

Philosphers may claim you have a natural right to buy and consume drugs the US government considers illegal, since you aren't harming others; you can then scream about your natrual rights from prison all you want.

Re: Medical Anarchy

#39

Post by smacktoward »

dragonwriter wrote: post #34
kevingadd wrote: post #27

I'm bothered that this article seems to believe that the rise in homeschooling (in large part by unqualified parents using low-quality textbooks and ill-considered strategies) is another example of people 'opting out' of some particular brand of oppression by the State, and that doing so will increase supply, or something? As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one…

> As far as I'm concerned, students have a right to a high quality education because without one their future will be a trainwreck. Just because they're largely minors doesn't, to me, mean that their parents have the right to deny them a future in favor of whatever their personal reasons may be. Sounds like the solution is to: 1) Define what a "high quality education" means in terms that it is objectively measurable…

> Sounds like the solution is to: 1) Define what a "high quality education" means in terms that it is objectively measurable

Um, good luck with that.

Re: Medical Anarchy

#40

Post by baddox »

01Michael10 wrote: post #4

This article is for real? Am I missing something? Sure, people want a diagnosis and other services from an unregulated, anonymous doctor with a reputation built by what? Amazon-like reviews? Come on!

If it's cheaper and/or faster, and has a history of being equally or more effective than traditional doctors, then of course people would want it.
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