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Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

english.martinvarsavsky.net

31–40 of 73 posts

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. You can't argue about the lack of GPS trackers, though. Every shipping container has one nowadays.

Reading GPS is cheap and easy. Sending information back is not. Those shipping container trackers use GSM to call home. They're cell phones. What happens when that container is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean?

That's an interesting question. Mini "cell tower" on the ship with satellite link?

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#32

Most modern aircraft have GPS receivers built-in. They are actually constantly reporting this information to ground stations [1]. I'm not saying that things couldn't be better (and I'm no expert at all) but I doubt that any of these new technologies would have saved MH370. It's very weird, for instance, that the ground station that reports to flightracker24 lost ADS-B communication with the plane all of a sudden and…

Is a Boeing 777-200ER (introduced 1997) a modern aircraft in your opinion?

It seems that Flight 370 had GPS tracking (flightradar24.com screenshot): http://www.voanews.com/content/vietnam-navy-official-missing...

Direct link: http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-03-07/16:46/12x/MAS370/2d8...

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#33
post #30

Most modern airliners have satellite links (data and voice) with their dispatch centers. They also use the ACARS system to send and receive clearances (they can acknowledge by pushing a button). The old SELCAL+HF radio is no longer in use, except for backup. Planes have GPS trackers. Not only their company knows where they are, the control center can too. In the case of the north atlantic track system, air control ke…

> I just fail to see the point of this post. Haven't you read about the missing aircraft? Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is a missing international passenger flight operated by a Boeing 777-200ER aircraft: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370 At least two of the passengers were travelling using false identities (stolen passports, tickets bought at the same time). Edit: last known position: http://w…

Oh wow. If it's straight-up missing they could be anywhere in Asia right now... nuts.

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#34
post #19

It may be stuck in the 60's but HF radios work sure you can create an automated dispatch system on an iPad. How do you authenticate it? how do you tell if its not working? does it fail safe? Making safe software is hard, and well beyond the wit of your standard programmer. After all, can you gaurentee your software when the CPU is at 100%? can you say with certainty what happens when your CPU is hammered by all the i…

> It may be stuck in the 60's but HF radios work Really? When you have to worry about things like "Squelch" in order to deal with voltage supply ground noise? You are on thin ground. The real problem with modern technology is that the pilot can't rely on it. Sure, a digital radio is $1,000 (or less). However, the digital radio that is FAA certified will be expensive and nobody is going to develop it because the FAA w…

Squelch adjusts the noise floor, and in modern radios can be automagical. Also there is nought wrong with digital over HF, as other posts will attest.

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#35
post #20

It may be stuck in the 60's but HF radios work sure you can create an automated dispatch system on an iPad. How do you authenticate it? how do you tell if its not working? does it fail safe? Making safe software is hard, and well beyond the wit of your standard programmer. After all, can you gaurentee your software when the CPU is at 100%? can you say with certainty what happens when your CPU is hammered by all the i…

At times like this, I'm reminded of the Mars Curiosity's tech specs which are something like 200MHz, 256MB of RAM, 2GB hd,and 2MP camera and all the posts about how my iPhone is so much better. Well it was good enough to get to Mars and a hell of a lot more reliable.

Some of the research rovers we built before Sojourner had 8-bit processors with 2k EEPROM and 256 bytes of RAM. Back then there were people who thought we were crazy for thinking that some day we would be able to fly with the same 8MB of RAM that was in our MacII development machines.

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#37
post #11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all fine, but the points he makes remain very valid, GPS tracking and weather info being the most valid. No-one knows why the plane went down, but arguing that technology advances can't make planes safer isn't true by the looks of the article. The fact that the security aspects of computer systems to help pilots is hard does not mean it can't be attempted successfully, the points made about drones ring true on…

In the US, most planes do have GPS, and it will be a requirement by 2020. For those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillanc...

The MH370 777 was fitted with ADS-B, which is how the various internet based tracking services managed to track it. Unfortunately, it was so far away from the nearest receiver site that the line-of-sight needed for microwave transmissions wasn't possible below 30,000 feet. If the plane made an emergency descent, it would've vanished from tracking very quickly though perhaps not as quickly as it did vanish. AF477 sent ACARS messages over its satellite communication link, as I recall, these are not sent as frequently as ADS-B messages but would be enough to locate the aircraft very approximately. The problem with any technical solution is it may not continue to function for the whole flight, which is why ELTs exist, but they're not indestructible or guaranteed to be in a position to transmit after a crash. There is only so much you can do with electrons, when you're facing the prospect of a large metal object falling 35,000 feet into salt water.

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#38
Can an aviation expert decipher the following data?

  MH370/MAS370
  Boing 777-2H6ER
  Registration 9M-MRO
  Altitude 0ft
  Speed 471 kt
  Track 40°
  Vertical Speed 0 fpm
  Lattitude: 6.97
  Longitude: 103.63
  Radar: F-WMKC1
  Squawk: 2157
source: http://www.flightradar24.com/2014-03-07/16:46/12x/MAS370/2d8...

That particular airplane was delivered new to Malaysia Airlines in May 2002 and was involved in a ground mishap in 2012. While taxiing at Shanghai's Pudong airport, its wingtip hit the tail of another aircraft. According to an independent accident-tracking site, the damage suffered by the Boeing 777 was "substantial.": http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=147571

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading GPS is cheap and easy. Sending information back is not. Those shipping container trackers use GSM to call home. They're cell phones. What happens when that container is in the middle of the Pacific Ocean?

That's an interesting question. Mini "cell tower" on the ship with satellite link?

or you could just use radar, which only requires your own radar to work....

Re: Aviation is stuck in the 60s – a reflection on MH 370

#40
post #20

It may be stuck in the 60's but HF radios work sure you can create an automated dispatch system on an iPad. How do you authenticate it? how do you tell if its not working? does it fail safe? Making safe software is hard, and well beyond the wit of your standard programmer. After all, can you gaurentee your software when the CPU is at 100%? can you say with certainty what happens when your CPU is hammered by all the i…

At times like this, I'm reminded of the Mars Curiosity's tech specs which are something like 200MHz, 256MB of RAM, 2GB hd,and 2MP camera and all the posts about how my iPhone is so much better. Well it was good enough to get to Mars and a hell of a lot more reliable.

At times like this, I'm reminded of the nuclear power plants of the world and their automation based on punched cards.

When speaking about systems, which need maximal reliability and are strictly controlled by authorities (air planes, nuclear power plants, medical treatment devices, space related stuff), updating existing and once approved systems is so painful, that you often do all you can to avoid it. That's a sad state of affairs.

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