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Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

theguardian.com

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Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#31

Post by kasbah »

Xophmeister wrote: post #20
kasbah wrote: post #14

Nice little bit of criticism of the Hackney council and I like the summary of the startup scene in general: A common pattern in startups is to go to work for one, watch it implode and team up with a colleague or two to move on to another startup; repeat several times until you have agglomerated a bunch of people you know, like and trust; then do your own startup with them. The statement that foreign students paying v…

International students pay full fees here, whereas UK/EU students are subsidised somewhat. I don't know if international student fees are "central" to university budgets, in comparison with domestic fees and funding, but they're obviously very important. Increasingly so, in recent years, as domestic fees have gone up considerably, which has seen a decrease in home student numbers. Anyway, the bubble would burst when…

Yes, I should have said "integral to university budgets" rather than "central".

The thing is, the perceived value of education is largely based around prestige. Unless the cost of studying in the UK suddenly sky-rockets or there is some scandal that damages the reputability of all UK universities there isn't going to be a "bust" scenario.

It just doesn't seem very likely. I can envision a slow decline but no sudden fluctuations. Maybe I am mis-interpreting what "bubble" means?

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#32

Post by tehwalrus »

Xophmeister wrote: post #20
kasbah wrote: post #14

Nice little bit of criticism of the Hackney council and I like the summary of the startup scene in general: A common pattern in startups is to go to work for one, watch it implode and team up with a colleague or two to move on to another startup; repeat several times until you have agglomerated a bunch of people you know, like and trust; then do your own startup with them. The statement that foreign students paying v…

International students pay full fees here, whereas UK/EU students are subsidised somewhat. I don't know if international student fees are "central" to university budgets, in comparison with domestic fees and funding, but they're obviously very important. Increasingly so, in recent years, as domestic fees have gone up considerably, which has seen a decrease in home student numbers. Anyway, the bubble would burst when…

When I started uni, the home/EU fees were £1000 a year[1]. My friends in class who were applying as international (non-EU) students had to pay £24k per year to attend the same courses.

The Government did pay universities the "teaching grant" per home student, to top up the fees, but when tuition fees settled at £9k per year that number was chosen in order to eliminate most of the teaching grant[2], so assuming that universities were getting topped up to £9k per home student, foreign students were worth 2.5x the home ones.

I know for sure that the universities compete to get as many foreign students in as possible, which was why all the fuss when they revoked London Met's ability to give student visas - they were attacking their funding, basically.

[1] they have since tripled twice, although remember repayments are like a sort of tax (the government lends you the money in the first place, and you pay back 9% of your income above £15k).

[2] I think science students still get it and arts students don't, or something, because this government is insane.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#35

Post by w_t_payne »

w_t_payne wrote: post #34

Come to Brighton instead! Brighton is to London what California is to NY. I.e. full of hippies and "creative" types.

Or the Medway Towns: Full of weird, strange people ... but still dirt cheap & commutable to/from London.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#36

Post by vidarh »

gutnor wrote: post #12
gaius wrote: post #4

Gentrifiers complaining that they've been out-gentrified. There were people living in Hackney and Dalston before the hipsters moved in and starting pricing them out of the neighbourhoods they grew up in, but what goes around, comes around.

Also, silicon roundabout is at 5 min walking distance of the heart of the city of London, so any kind of success would have priced them out. The council is doing what their own success would have been doing in a few years. It would have required tremendous effort by the government to maintain the right balance of cheap business place and accommodation required to let the community survive. 100 meters away from one of…

There's some effort going on in Croydon (that's South London, and one of the cheapest parts of London for those of you not in the UK): http://croydontechcity.com/ (heh - just noticed I'm in one of the pics on their site)

They run regular event to try to pull together a startup community, and it's extremely well attended, to the point where they've had to restrict numbers for some of the meetings. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of it - it's only been going for a year or so, but seems to be growing rapidly and it does seem like there's an increasing number of actual startups rather than just people talking about it.

Croydon, despite its reputation has the advantage of lots of cheap low grade office space (though the cheapest stuff in the main business district is gradually being demolished to create space for new high grade expensive high rises, but there are also a couple of "retail parks" in the midst of a sea of cheap office buildings and warehouses a few minutes walk/bus out of the town centre), there's at least one local data centre from a good provider, and it's very well connected to central London and the South coast.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#37

Post by onmydesk »

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country.

Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintained housing and presumably never have children.

This is happening NOW and it is a disgrace.

Unbelievably it is being encouraged by the government with schemes to prop the bubble up further! But they are only a year away from an election now and its the older people renting out property who are most likely to vote and so the young just have to deal with it.

Actual wealth creation that can come from government support of startup hubs is the furthest thing from this governments mind. We're all too busy getting rich from doing nothing all day in someone else's office and waiting for the young to pay off our multiple properties mortgages for us to actually do anything creative or beneficial.

Im here and it makes me sick.

This government by the way, which is manipulating the housing market in such an anti capitalist way, is actually the more capitalist party of the two.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#38

Post by dia80 »

pjc50 wrote: post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

This is only happening through the looking glass of 0.5% rates - 3% on property seems attractive. If the economy ever re-inflates and rates go up a couple of points all this building wont seem so attractive anymore...

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#39

Post by camillomiller »

mysterywhiteboy wrote: post #2

Article was removed - but google is all-seeing: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.the...

Well, I guess some editor's being grilled for letting this paragraph pass through.

>Maybe not one as hot as Silicon Valley, but a least something to add much-needed diversity to the capital's industrial base – which presently consists largely of companies that launder war criminals' money, and companies that exchange this laundered money for empty luxury flats.

While one can agree, Doctorow's sarcasm isn't clear and that sounds like a pretty unsubstantiated claim, even by the guardian's admirably liberal standards.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#40

Post by pjc50 »

gaius wrote: post #15
gutnor wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, silicon roundabout is at 5 min walking distance of the heart of the city of London, so any kind of success would have priced them out. The council is doing what their own success would have been doing in a few years. It would have required tremendous effort by the government to maintain the right balance of cheap business place and accommodation required to let the community survive. 100 meters away from one of…

We have had a lot of Silicon-whatsits in the UK. Silicon Fen in Cambridgeshire and Silicon Glen somewhere in Scotland. There's a big electronics scene in Bristol. Tho' this is something that it's impossible for governments to do, really, all the money will be creamed off by "advisers" and "consultants", small companies given impossible bureaucratic hoops to jump through, etc. The best thing the government can do is j…

Could you describe the electronics scene in Bristol? That sounds interesting.

RiscOS will run on the Raspberry Pi (made in Wales) if that counts :)

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