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You got the programming fatigue?

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Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#31
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not trying to feed the troll here, but I feel it should be noticed that this is a hacker community, and hackers don't generally dig fence post holes all day, trenches, or lay bricks all day. I'm sure some do, but programmers, who program for a living, need to be in front of a computer of some kind. Not all hard jobs involve labor. I'm guessing you've never had to sit in front of a computer and think logically for…

Sure devving is hard! I've most certainly had my share of ~100 hour weeks, no doubt they are horrific! They ruin you! (My partner doesn't enjoy them either :P) And I'm sure whatever crazy devving sessions I've endured, they are but a drop in the ocean compared to what people a required to pull off when they are taking the first steps in a start-up. However it’s actually a topic that my best mates and I talk about qui…

Anways, watch me get down voted to hell because this isn't what others want to hear about our 'precious lifestyle'

Watch you get downvoted for being unhelpful, unsympathetic and trollish.

Maybe that’s where my appreciation of what a physically intensive job means, stems from?

Why are you talking on and on about physically intensive jobs when the OP is not saying "It's too much effort", he's saying "it's wrecking my wrists and it should not, what am I doing wrong?".

Yea no shit nobody on here digs fence posts... they wouldn't be bloody winging about sitting in a chair all day if they did ahahah

They would if their family survival depends on income from sitting typing and they can't type because of knackered wrists.

But I fail to understand ...

That's a failure in your understanding.

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#32

Physical pain is to be expected when you work on a laptop. I use my PC for long hours without any kind of discomfort, but working on the MacBook for even a few hours tires me out. Here is what I suggest: 1. Try using a desktop computer, if you can. 2. If you can't use a desktop, get a separate monitor, keyboard and mouse for your laptop. Use this setup when you're coding at home. 3. Learn and use Emacs or Vim. They'r…

Had wrist trouble in past. The parent post has good advice.

From personal experience:

1. Switching from laptop to desktop made a lot of difference. I now use a MS ergonomic keyboard.

2. Switched to using mouse with left hand. The problem is that the keyboard is too big on the right side due to the additional numberpad. So if you use a right handed mouse, you often end up holding it at a weird angle.

3. Started using vim.

4. Ensure that keyboard and mouse are at a proper height. If you have to bend your elbows, then something might be wrong.

5. Regularly check to see if you are gripping the mouse too tightly or if you are hitting the keys too hard. You may be unaware of the stress you are putting in the muscle.

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#33
If you're working near florescents, try moving or turning them off. If you made an unlucky draw in the gene pool lottery, the fast flicker from florescents can interfere with your eyes' ability to focus, which can lead to eye strain. Taking a periodic break to stare at something distant is good. My optometrist claims that getting a 15 minute dose of indirect sunlight (looking at something outside with a blue sky background) is even better.

An eye exam will also rule out something like cataracts, which usually hit when you're a lot older, but may arrive early if you made a particularly unlucky draw from the gene pool.

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#34
I've been been an active developer for over 35 years, and I can say paying attention to ergonomics is one of the key aspects to longevity. When any part of your body starts to hurt, please pay attention, and take immediate action to adjust, shim, change keyboards, etc in order to stop the aching or pain before it gets any worse, and shut the pain down. It's your body's way of telling you that a change needs to be made. A single gig just isn't worth slamming your potential.

Better chairs, desks, keyboards, and VERY IMPORTANT arm supports to keep your wrists straight while you type. Also, don't pound your keyboard. A gentle touch is always best. If a mouse is a problem, try a trackball (Kensington), or even a "foot mouse".

There are lots of sites on minimizing eye fatigue. Looking away from the screen every 10 to 15 minutes to refocus on something far away is helpful. Also, don't scrimp on your monitor. Use a large display that is crisp and has good contrast.

Being cheap on the hardware you are "bound" to make seem wise in the short-term, but the long-term consequences are disabling.

Please, don't compromise with pain or discomfort.. It only gets worse.

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#35
I didn't have the eye strain problems, but did have pain in arms, wrists, under and around my shoulder blade for my right hand. I used my right had to mouse. Was working on a project that "must go live" and the last month of implementation I spent 60 hours a week coding. Seriously.

Big mistake. A day after the launch I could not type, mouse, anything with my right hand as my muscles would ache and lock up.

At work I had a desktop, at home a laptop. The laptop was on a desk that violated every law of ergonomics known to man. The chair was a cheap $79 chair I got in college from the local office supply store. More mistakes.

Fast forward a year, I'd begun to notice that my right arm/hand ached all the time and the area between my shoulder blade and spine constantly held a knot.

My PCP prescribed pills and sent me to physical therapy. That helped a little but the side effects from the pills made me feel drunk all the time. The PT used a technique called "traction" that I later found out was chiropractic in nature. That stretched my neck and seemed to help the symptoms. That an excercises and an occasional pill when I had a bad flare up seemed to help manage things.

Fast forward another year and after an ergonomic makeover (explained below) I was hurting again and figured I'd go see a Chiropractor which my family (all Chiro success stories) suggested I go to. Wow! I've just celebrated 1 year of Chiropractic care and feel amazing! It's not solved all of my issues and I still have to manage my time in front of the computer, but it forces me to use it wisely.

Here's a list of items that have helped me:

- Read everything you can about Ergonomics

- Buy an Elevator for your laptop - www.griffintechnology.com/products/elevator - By itself it isn't high enough for me so I have 2 thick text books under that as well to keep my eyes at a 90 degree angle from my screen

- Buy a good chair. I broke down and bought an Aeron chair from a used office supply store. One of the best moves I could have made.

- Take loads of breaks, stretch, excercise. Push ups, lateral pulls, "give yourself a hug" all relieve tension and strain. Find any and all stretches for your neck and upper back.

- Sleep. Really, look at the code you've written when you're fatigued and look at code you've written when rested. My CTO says that "every programmer has 4 good hours of code in them a day". That doesn't mean to work 4 hours, but that you need to listen to yourself when you're "spent". Accomplish the toughest tasks first thing, then once your "spent" do the menial tasks that take effort but little critical thinking.

- Go to a Chiropractor. I kick myself for suffering literally for 2 years! For the wrist pain, they can pop your wrists and relieve the pain.

Good luck and I hope my suggestions help someone.

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#36
You might look into the work by Dr. Sorno. I know people saved by his methods from RSI/CT... I don't necessarily agree with his repressed anger and hostility hypothesis but I think the basic idea that the mind can generate these body pains for reasons we don't understand. Fortunately his techniques work regardless of the specific psychology involved. Start here..http://podolsky.everybody.org/rsi/

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#37
I have an old SGI keyboard that I'm absolutely partial to and a simple dual screen setup with two fairly large monitors a good 2' (60 cm) away from my head.

It works, but after sitting for > 10 hours I have to take a fairly long break.

move my desk up (or down) 2 cm and I end up with very had shoulder pain. It took a lot of trying to get it right.

Chair is a fairly cheap office chair but it has lots of stuff I can change to force changes in position during the day.

I removed the armrests because they make my arms hurt like hell.

Re: You got the programming fatigue?

#38

Physical pain is to be expected when you work on a laptop. I use my PC for long hours without any kind of discomfort, but working on the MacBook for even a few hours tires me out. Here is what I suggest: 1. Try using a desktop computer, if you can. 2. If you can't use a desktop, get a separate monitor, keyboard and mouse for your laptop. Use this setup when you're coding at home. 3. Learn and use Emacs or Vim. They'r…

You just described my exact work setup.

A couple more suggestions:

- Try to get your screen at eye level. If you can avoid having to look down all the time, you'll put much less strain on your back.

- Your forearm and upper arm should be making an angle close to 90 degrees.

- A little footbench or something you can lean on with your feet, so you don't have your legs dangling or being folded up underneath your chair.

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