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Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

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Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#31

Post by Fede_V »

bertil wrote: post #15
Fede_V wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with abolishing almost all those regulations - they are a huge barrier to entry, and they serve very little public good. However, hotel rooms are highly taxed, while most AirBNB rooms are not - apartment rents are often rented at submarket prices under rent-control schemes, yet the tenants charge full fair to rent out their rooms. Right now, AirBNB and Uber are basically trying to avoid all regulations by pr…

The intermediary argument is over-used, but I doubt AirBnB is trying to fight hotel on the cost aspect: most of the time, they tend to be similarly priced. They don’t really recommend price at all. My impression was more that hotels (like taxis) abuse the market by strangling the offer, and forcing people to upgrade when they don’t care about luxury. The company was started to help political operative (the most amena…

A few things:

- There's been several reports of SF landlords kicking out tenants from rent controlled apartments to lease out rooms on AirBnB. While I am against rent control (it's a terrible system that creates a few winners and fucks over most people who cannot get such a flat) it's obvious that this is an abuse of the system

- Until recently, AirBnB fought tooth and nail against paying hotel taxes.

I think safety regulations are mostly overkill, and I'd get rid of most of them in a heartbeat, but while those regulations exist, you cannot simply outcompete other players that are forced to follow regulations you avoid.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#32

Post by hnnewguy »

pmorici wrote: post #29
rayiner wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope "your generation" at some point realizes that the challenges facing Uber don't stem from "opposition to the new." People aren't shocked and confused by the sheer novelty and innovation of being able to call a cab with a phone. They're reacting to companies trampling over settled expectations and compromises. Municipalities created these regulated taxi systems, and used monopoly status as a carrot in return for…

"They're reacting to companies trampling over settled expectations and compromises. Municipalities created these regulated taxi systems, and used monopoly status as a carrot in return for imposing regulation." Has anyone looked at if taxi companies actually hold up their end of the bargain? In Baltimore taxis routinely refuse to make pickups in various parts of town either because they are out of the way or because t…

>In Baltimore taxis routinely refuse to make pickups in various parts of town either because they are out of the way or because they are perceived to be "bad".

And Uber is solving this how? Bad neighbourhoods are bad neighbourhoods.

It sounds like one solution to this problem is to mandate that taxis cannot discriminate. That smells like regulation.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#33

Post by pmorici »

hnnewguy wrote: post #32
pmorici wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They're reacting to companies trampling over settled expectations and compromises. Municipalities created these regulated taxi systems, and used monopoly status as a carrot in return for imposing regulation." Has anyone looked at if taxi companies actually hold up their end of the bargain? In Baltimore taxis routinely refuse to make pickups in various parts of town either because they are out of the way or because t…

> In Baltimore taxis routinely refuse to make pickups in various parts of town either because they are out of the way or because they are perceived to be "bad". And Uber is solving this how? Bad neighbourhoods are bad neighbourhoods. It sounds like one solution to this problem is to mandate that taxis cannot discriminate. That smells like regulation.

I think you are missing the point Taxi companies in Baltimore already have a regulation that they can't discriminate. They ignore it, there appear to be no enforcement consequences for doing so so why would they follow it?

Uber has no such regulation yet people who use it report having an easier time getting a cab in parts of town Taxi's discriminate against.

There are several things Uber does that make it less of a problem for them. Drivers feel safer since the interaction is pre-vetted through Uber. It's cashless so not much to rob. You know the person you are going to meet must have it together enough to have a functioning credit card, smartphone, and cell service.

Uber removes drivers that decline too many fares (good drivers accept like 90%). When a fare is offered to a driver they only have 12 seconds to accept it and they only show the driver a very zoomed in map of the location and the estimated drive time to the location. So even if one driver is discriminating the offer will be quickly routed to the next closest driver until one accepts it.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#34

Post by [deleted] »

joeblau wrote: post #16
iselkow wrote: post #4

What are the arguments in favor of this regulation? I'm sure that anti-competition lobbies from limos, cabs, etc. play a role, but is there something safety-related as well? And if so, why would 150 Lyft drivers be safer than 400 Lyft drivers?

The arguments in favor are that the taxi cab companies and the local governments have a deal going on. A regular cab pays taxes and fees to the government and if people stop taking regular cabs, all of a sudden a stream of revenue stops coming in. Also, cab companies are losing a lot of drivers and business to services like UberX, Lyft and Sidecar. I've been in many UberX cars in San Francisco where the driver is act…

[deleted]

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#35

Post by yardie »

rmc wrote: post #21
Dirlewanger wrote: post #10

Fuck, I sincerely hope our generation (early-mid 20s) do not react like crusty sheltered curmudgeons in 15-30 years when they occupy these positions of power and are confronted with something they've never seen before. I'm not too hopeful though. One of the few constants in life is that while individually people may change, groups of them rarely do.

Highly likely. Remember what happened when the 1960s generation of free love and drugs got in power and legalised weed, and promoted sex? Yeah me either

You highly overestimate the influence that hippies had on the day to day of that era. Those guys are still into free love and weed. They just do it from inside the safety of their communes.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#36

Post by eli »

rayiner wrote: post #24
Dirlewanger wrote: post #10

Fuck, I sincerely hope our generation (early-mid 20s) do not react like crusty sheltered curmudgeons in 15-30 years when they occupy these positions of power and are confronted with something they've never seen before. I'm not too hopeful though. One of the few constants in life is that while individually people may change, groups of them rarely do.

I hope "your generation" at some point realizes that the challenges facing Uber don't stem from "opposition to the new." People aren't shocked and confused by the sheer novelty and innovation of being able to call a cab with a phone. They're reacting to companies trampling over settled expectations and compromises. Municipalities created these regulated taxi systems, and used monopoly status as a carrot in return for…

I'm with you on a lot of that, but:

"...the deregulation experiment in the U.S. over the last few decades has shown that lightly-regulated markets function better"

Uh, I'm really not interested in an economics debate, but I think many people would disagree with that blanket assertion. The deregulated electric market in California springs to mind as one counter-example.

Some of the supposedly evil taxi regulations that Uber has been fighting here in DC actually seem pretty reasonable to me. I'm OK with Uber drivers being required to have extra car insurance and the city making sure that the GPS-based meter system is accurate.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#37

Post by eli »

iselkow wrote: post #4

What are the arguments in favor of this regulation? I'm sure that anti-competition lobbies from limos, cabs, etc. play a role, but is there something safety-related as well? And if so, why would 150 Lyft drivers be safer than 400 Lyft drivers?

There is no monolithic thing called "regulation" that can be turned on or off. All cars and all businesses are regulated in various ways. Here in DC, cab drivers need to get their cars inspected more often than regular drivers, need to carry additional car insurance beyond the normal minimum, and need to prove they have a license in good standing. These rules seem reasonable and it seems fair to apply them to Uber.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#38

Post by BrainInAJar »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #10

Fuck, I sincerely hope our generation (early-mid 20s) do not react like crusty sheltered curmudgeons in 15-30 years when they occupy these positions of power and are confronted with something they've never seen before. I'm not too hopeful though. One of the few constants in life is that while individually people may change, groups of them rarely do.

> confronted with something they've never seen before

But we have seen it before, these are just illegal unlicensed cabs. There is literally nothing separating Uber from an illegal cab, except that they've got an app for that.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#39

Post by droopyEyelids »

In Chicago all taxi drivers must obtain a Chauffeur's License before driving.

The Chauffeur's license exam includes background checks, tests for common infectious diseases (tuberculosis), and a basic knowledge test of the city.

Uber does background checks, but they don't test for TB and I've had three UberX drivers that didn't know where Lake Michigan was when we were two blocks away from it.

Also, licensed taxi drivers have a number that you can report to 311 for safety purposes.

I think Uber could have avoided a portion of this backlash if it would have taken more steps to ensure safety-parity while side-stepping the medallion limitations.

Re: Uber, Lyft crackdown in Seattle may be followed in other cities

#40

Post by barclay »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #39

In Chicago all taxi drivers must obtain a Chauffeur's License before driving. The Chauffeur's license exam includes background checks, tests for common infectious diseases (tuberculosis), and a basic knowledge test of the city. Uber does background checks, but they don't test for TB and I've had three UberX drivers that didn't know where Lake Michigan was when we were two blocks away from it. Also, licensed taxi driv…

Not to sound like the classic idealist libertarian, but isn't this how uber and lyft will be better? You ride with someone who's clueless or an asshole, rate them 1-star, the ratings compound, and unless they improve quickly they're tossed out of the driver pool. Immediate impact.
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