Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Bay Area

tbray.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 51 posts

Re: The Bay Area

#31

Post by Noted »

angryindianguy wrote: post #16

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. I am sorry I used to think that Tim Bray was a smart guy. Hell Indians in India are far more poorer than African Americans. Now if some i…

While he's definitely wrong on several accounts, you are as well. 1. How do Indians in India being poorer affect this? Obviously the ones in extreme poverty aren't the ones coming and working in the US. 2. You provide no evidence of black latino culture (I assume you mean black and latino cultures, since they're separate entities) looking down upon education. You seem to fail to grasp what exactly institutional racism is, because lack of education of minority groups who tend to live in lower socioeconomic areas is institutional racism. 3. SF can indeed be racist against other groups, even if it isn't against all minority groups.

Re: The Bay Area

#32

Post by mturmon »

angryindianguy wrote: post #16

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. I am sorry I used to think that Tim Bray was a smart guy. Hell Indians in India are far more poorer than African Americans. Now if some i…

This is such an un-informed comment. It is completely ignorant of American history. You understand that American game-rigging like redlining, and unequal drug sentencing, and racial profiling, exist now and/or have existed in the lifetimes of most adults today?

Sure, some people get lucky, or work really hard. But on average, the game is rigged.

If you want to overcome your ignorance of this topic, you might want to check out Ta-Nehisi Coates' blog. He's excellent on these issues. Some starting points that relate to what you've written --

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/02/i-am-sti...

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/01/the-cham...

Re: The Bay Area

#33

Post by greenyoda »

rootedbox wrote: post #22

I'm hispanic living in the mission, and for a long time I also had 2 black roommates. We've had many conversations about direct blatant racism, and also indirect just people being ignorant in what they say bigotry. Of course a lot of non-minorities have issues understanding the difference in racism, and bigotry. This being said. What is brought up in this article is racism. Specifically the institution of racism. If…

"If you are not actively doing things to fix the institutions of racism, and sexism; then you are actively part of an institution of racism and sexism."

If I'm not actively trying to stop murderers or fraudsters, am I "actively part of an institution" of murder and fraud? If not, then why would your assertion about racism and sexism be true?

Re: The Bay Area

#34

Post by eldude »

Unfortunately, a great deal of the perceived "racism" in the US is actually cultural. The greatest example of this are Blacks. Yes, African Americans have an extensive, awful and horrific national history of racism and abuse, but there are numerous examples of African American culture holding itself back.

A couple examples: Bill Cosby[1], Jamaicans[2], black raised by whites[3]. (There are numerous others, but these are the easy three.)

Jamaicans for example, see African Americans as lazy and deserving of their place in American society and often hate being referred to as African American because it is both inaccurate, and because they do not culturally identify with them, seeing no conflict between their blackness and their ability to achieve the American Dream.

When you hear cries of racism, consider whether you actually see people being mistreated or considered inferior because of the color of their skin, or if their own (cultural) behaviors are ensuring their struggle. It's extremely unfortunate and my heart breaks for anyone suffering from cultural peer pressure or family pressures to not forsake their "heritage" by "acting white," especially since you don't have to act white in order to act successful.

My opinion is that you see this exemplified most in the Bay Area because you are viewing the top 0.1% of achievers in the tech industry. Adding a self-sabotaging cultural identity certainly cannot help, and I imagine going to non-top 20 public university probably also doesn't help, which is why so many in the Bay Area grads are from MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Carnegie Mellon, etc... graduates.

FWIW, I acknowledge that there ARE in fact some cultural pressure to conform to arbitrary FLOABW "white" behaviors, which have similar ramifications to racism, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

Lastly, self-sabotaging culture is not uniquely black, white, hispanic, etc... which is why it's has nothing to do with race or racism.

[1] http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp [2] http://www.jamaicans.com/articles/primecomments/1002_amerija... [3] Barack Obama, Halle Berry, numerous friends...

Re: The Bay Area

#35

Post by jpwright »

angryindianguy wrote: post #16

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. I am sorry I used to think that Tim Bray was a smart guy. Hell Indians in India are far more poorer than African Americans. Now if some i…

> There is no institutional racism, what exists is a black latino culture that looks down upon education.

I'll bite my tongue here for what I really want to say, but dear god was this an extremely ignorant and offensive thing to say.

Re: The Bay Area

#36

Post by Noted »

greenyoda wrote: post #33
rootedbox wrote: post #22

I'm hispanic living in the mission, and for a long time I also had 2 black roommates. We've had many conversations about direct blatant racism, and also indirect just people being ignorant in what they say bigotry. Of course a lot of non-minorities have issues understanding the difference in racism, and bigotry. This being said. What is brought up in this article is racism. Specifically the institution of racism. If…

" If you are not actively doing things to fix the institutions of racism, and sexism; then you are actively part of an institution of racism and sexism. " If I'm not actively trying to stop murderers or fraudsters, am I "actively part of an institution" of murder and fraud? If not, then why would your assertion about racism and sexism be true?

You're comparing apples and oranges. If there was institutional murder and fraud then your comparison might make some sense. If there there was institutional murder, say every left-handed person was killed at birth, and you did nothing about it because you're right handed then he's claiming you're actively part of that institutional murder. While I don't necessarily agree, there are differences between the types which you are ignoring

Re: The Bay Area

#37

Post by Noted »

mturmon wrote: post #32
angryindianguy wrote: post #16

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. I am sorry I used to think that Tim Bray was a smart guy. Hell Indians in India are far more poorer than African Americans. Now if some i…

This is such an un-informed comment. It is completely ignorant of American history. You understand that American game-rigging like redlining, and unequal drug sentencing, and racial profiling, exist now and/or have existed in the lifetimes of most adults today? Sure, some people get lucky, or work really hard. But on average, the game is rigged. If you want to overcome your ignorance of this topic, you might want to…

I wonder if he believes that the poorest Indians, if only they worked harder, could be here starting companies.

Re: The Bay Area

#38

Post by thetrb »

jfoutz wrote: post #4
thetrb wrote: post #3

This is a blog and therefore the author can of course present his opinion in any way he wants, but I'd really like to see this claim backed up somehow. Are there any statistics that show a difference in the distribution of wealth or well-paying jobs between the Bay Area and Vancouver?

this work? http://ccsre.stanford.edu/reports/report_13.pdf

This doesn't even reference Vancouver or Canada at all. It has some interesting information, so thanks for the link, but I don't think it answers the general question.

Re: The Bay Area

#39

Post by carsongross »

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American.

Hilariously, blacks and hispanics make up less than 2.5% of Vancouver's population:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver

But, please, lecture us more on the topic.

Personally, I live in Sacramento, America's most diverse city: http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,340694,00... So I'm allowed to lecture ALL OF YOU regarding your privilege.

Re: The Bay Area

#40

Post by sxtxixtxcxh »

Noted wrote: post #36
greenyoda wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" If you are not actively doing things to fix the institutions of racism, and sexism; then you are actively part of an institution of racism and sexism. " If I'm not actively trying to stop murderers or fraudsters, am I "actively part of an institution" of murder and fraud? If not, then why would your assertion about racism and sexism be true?

You're comparing apples and oranges. If there was institutional murder and fraud then your comparison might make some sense. If there there was institutional murder, say every left-handed person was killed at birth, and you did nothing about it because you're right handed then he's claiming you're actively part of that institutional murder. While I don't necessarily agree, there are differences between the types whic…

we DO have institutional murder. how else could you classify a death penalty?
Post reply on HN