I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us) • Hacker News Board

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#31

Post by RyanMcGreal » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 1:15 PM UTC

whatusername wrote: post #17

freetard wrote: post #3

Why would anyone want to like a company?

Because capitalism is built on a series of MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL transactions. So when I buy a product - I gain something because I now have the product and the company gains because they've sold me that product presumably at a profit. The reason I buy something is because buying it makes me better off. I like things that make me better off - therefore it is perfectly reasonable to like companies - esp ones that make i…

Because capitalism is built on a series of MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL transactions.

It's not only that: capitalism is also built extensively on explicit or implied social norms that cultivate customer loyalty to a company that makes and keeps ethical as well as contractual promises.

Market norms and values are what they are, but people live in social and ethical worlds, and most people expect their business transactions to be ethically as well as economically acceptable.

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#32

Post by jacobolus » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 1:51 PM UTC

Kadin wrote: post #21

alex_c wrote: post #10

I got my first Apple product - a MacBook - in December. The only way to connect it to an external monitor turned out to be purchasing an additional Mini DisplayPort[1] adapter for something like $45 - from Apple, of course, since no one else was selling it. The ONLY product in the entire world at the time that used the Mini DisplayPort, as far as I could tell, was the MacBook. (well, maybe some of Apple's new display…

I don't think that's Apple being evil, that's Apple being ahead of the curve. They've always done that and I've thought it was generally admirable, although sometimes it puts you as a customer further out on the bleeding edge than you'd like. (E.g., I was very much unready to give up PCI when Apple decided to ditch PCI-X for PCI Express. However, it was clearly where the world was headed.) They've done the "lead, don…

They did the "lead don't follow" thing before Jobs came back too when it came to hardware (indeed all the way from the beginning of the company to the present, from mice and "plug-and-play" ADB connectors to 3.5" disks to the first real consumer laptops (remember the Duo Dock anyone?) to really embracing SCSI, laser printers, and then in the recent Jobs age, USB and firewire and ethernet and DVD writers etc. etc.), it’s just that their software stagnated for quite a few years and none of the next-gen software research projects they dumped loads of cash into in the early-to-mid 90s really panned out.

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#33

Post by jemmons » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 2:11 PM UTC

What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable. Did the author call AppleCare? Did they tell him this was a DRM issue? Has he tried it with protected and unprotected content? Has he tried a new cable of same make and manufacture? Has he found any other users with this same problem (seems like there would be many)?

This is all basic troubleshooting that we would normally perform (or insist on being performed) before passing judgement. And yet for some reason, if it's an Apple product and you're new to the brand, you're somehow expecting to be screwed. So you blame any and every error on Apple and their evilness.

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#34

Post by lanaer » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 2:25 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #16

alex_c wrote: post #10

I got my first Apple product - a MacBook - in December. The only way to connect it to an external monitor turned out to be purchasing an additional Mini DisplayPort[1] adapter for something like $45 - from Apple, of course, since no one else was selling it. The ONLY product in the entire world at the time that used the Mini DisplayPort, as far as I could tell, was the MacBook. (well, maybe some of Apple's new display…

(Mini) DisplayPort is probably going to be the standard for video interfaces, so I don't think Apple is being evil here. The standard is royalty-free, after all, so anyone can make a Mini DisplayPort cable. Right now, there's just no market; being an early adopter sucks. (It seems that Lenovo and Dell put regular DisplayPorts on their laptops. So you are paying the Apple tax -- a more beautiful outline, but the cable…

Monoprice.com already sells Mini DisplayPort adapters of various types.

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#35

Post by asciilifeform » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 3:52 PM UTC

I can't justify buying a product that's not really mine. Call me spoiled, but using stuff like Linux made me feel I am really in control. The netbook is mine, and nobody will make my computer do something I don't approve.

This should be enshrined as a sacred principle of programming, not unlike the medical profession's Hippocratic Oath: "I will not build user-betraying systems." It is not enough for us to swear not to buy them: the sheeple will. And they have the most dollars/votes. We, the programmers, must refuse to participate in their creation.

See:

"Ethics for Programmers: Primum non Nocere" http://glyf.livejournal.com/46589.html

"The "you don't own your computer" paradigm is not merely wrong. It is violently, disastrously wrong, and the consequences of this error are likely to be felt for generations to come, unless steps are taken to prevent it."

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#36

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 3:58 PM UTC

jemmons wrote: post #33

What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable. Did the author call AppleCare? Did they tell him this was a DRM issue? Has he tried it with protected and unprotected content? Has he tried a new cable of same make and manufacture? Has he found any other users with this same problem (seems like there would be many)? This is all basic troubleshooting that we…

"What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable."

As for the faulty cable, unless the fault is really small, there is no reason to believe there is one. The cable works flawlessly with other iPods that have the 1.x software. I could not find any other cables from the same manufacturer and, since it's just a cable, I threw out the box it came in without much thought of that.

I contacted Apple support, but since the cable is not made by Apple and the iPod's warranty is expired, they said I am pretty much on my own.

As for being new to the brand, I own (and have used then extensively in the 80s) a couple Apple IIs and a somewhat large collection of Macintoshes. Sadly I don't have a Lisa or a NeXT cube (working on that and gladly accepting donations), but, if that's not enough to make me a non-Apple-newbie, I certainly don't know what would.

Did you even read the article? It's all written in the first paragraph...

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#37

Post by jemmons » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 8:36 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #36

jemmons wrote: post #33

What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable. Did the author call AppleCare? Did they tell him this was a DRM issue? Has he tried it with protected and unprotected content? Has he tried a new cable of same make and manufacture? Has he found any other users with this same problem (seems like there would be many)? This is all basic troubleshooting that we…

"What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable." As for the faulty cable, unless the fault is really small, there is no reason to believe there is one. The cable works flawlessly with other iPods that have the 1.x software. I could not find any other cables from the same manufacturer and, since it's just a cable, I threw out the box it came in without muc…

I read your article. I wish you'd have done my comment the same courtesy. You address none of my points. You haven't tried another cable. You haven't had the issue confirmed by support. You haven't tried with protected vs. unprotected content. You haven't found other users with the same problem... You can makes excuses for why you haven't done these things. They may even be good and reasonable excuses. But until you rule out the obvious and likely, your explanation of "my cable doesn't work because Apple doesn't like us" sounds like something of a conspiracy theory.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm comfortable labeling any new iPod/iPhone user who's most recent Apple hardware hails from over a decade ago as "new to the brand".

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#38

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 8:52 PM UTC

jemmons wrote: post #37

rbanffy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable." As for the faulty cable, unless the fault is really small, there is no reason to believe there is one. The cable works flawlessly with other iPods that have the 1.x software. I could not find any other cables from the same manufacturer and, since it's just a cable, I threw out the box it came in without muc…

I read your article. I wish you'd have done my comment the same courtesy. You address none of my points. You haven't tried another cable. You haven't had the issue confirmed by support. You haven't tried with protected vs. unprotected content. You haven't found other users with the same problem... You can makes excuses for why you haven't done these things. They may even be good and reasonable excuses. But until you…

No you didn't. Had you read the article, you wouldn't write what you did.

As for your points:

Another identical cable: I don't have two cables

Another iPod: worked other 1.x

Protected/uprotected: they were unprotected podcasts

Users with the same problem: didn't look for them. Assume my cable is "weird"

The cable ceased to work on the nigth the device was updated. Worked the night before. It would be incredibly weird if the cable broke by itself while hooked up to the TV the same time the iPod was updated, wouldn't it?

And while I didn't mention any hardware that is not part of my rather extensive collection of interesting Computers (not limited to Apples, of course), there is a rather new Macbook at home and a couple Macs at the office. Why would you suppose my newest Mac is a museum item?

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#39

Post by rbanffy » Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 9:41 PM UTC

jemmons wrote: post #37

rbanffy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable." As for the faulty cable, unless the fault is really small, there is no reason to believe there is one. The cable works flawlessly with other iPods that have the 1.x software. I could not find any other cables from the same manufacturer and, since it's just a cable, I threw out the box it came in without muc…

I read your article. I wish you'd have done my comment the same courtesy. You address none of my points. You haven't tried another cable. You haven't had the issue confirmed by support. You haven't tried with protected vs. unprotected content. You haven't found other users with the same problem... You can makes excuses for why you haven't done these things. They may even be good and reasonable excuses. But until you…

And just to be thorough, about other people having the same problem:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2046835&#3...

Re: I really want to like Apple (but they don't like us)

#40

Post by gpotts5626 » Wed, Jul 29, 2009, 2:45 AM UTC

jemmons wrote: post #37

rbanffy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I don't see here is any corroborating evidence that this is anything other than a bug or a faulty cable." As for the faulty cable, unless the fault is really small, there is no reason to believe there is one. The cable works flawlessly with other iPods that have the 1.x software. I could not find any other cables from the same manufacturer and, since it's just a cable, I threw out the box it came in without muc…

I read your article. I wish you'd have done my comment the same courtesy. You address none of my points. You haven't tried another cable. You haven't had the issue confirmed by support. You haven't tried with protected vs. unprotected content. You haven't found other users with the same problem... You can makes excuses for why you haven't done these things. They may even be good and reasonable excuses. But until you…

I did speak with Apple support. The rep told me that Apple does not support any non-Apple cables. I asked her if she meant "made for ipod or iphone" cables purchased at a legit retail store. She confirmed that they do not support any non-Apple cables after the 3.0 update.