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Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

theguardian.com

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Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#31

Post by trentmb »

faramarz wrote: post #18
avalaunch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if he wasn't currently en-route to pick up a passenger but had the app open, available to be assigned a new ride? My guess is that he had recently dropped off a passenger and was trying to get back to a location that he thought would make it more likely for him to be selected for another ride. Do you think Uber should be liable then?

I thought about it and I'm going to say yes. Uber is absolutely liable. Simple; If Uber app is on = cab driver makes money If Uber app is off = cab driver makes no money. Uber app operating is proof that cab driver is looking to get paid, looking for patrons, and hence employed by Uber. Only way to circumvent that is to shut off the App if you're not going to be picking up anyone or you're in a buffer zone, grabbing…

> Uber app operating is proof that cab driver is looking to get paid, looking for patrons, and hence employed by Uber.

No, the Uber app operating is proof that the cab driver is amicable to getting paid.

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#33

Post by samstave »

rd108 wrote: post #13

Uber, Lyft and its ilk are half innovative, efficient tech services and half hypercapitalist scavengers employing workers while avoiding paying those pesky benefits, worker's compensation or damages to a dead six year old's family.

As a user f Uber since very early on, I half agree, half disagree.

Uber is awesome -- ut the costing model fucking sucks.

When in SF I lived in Presidio and Upper Market/Noe Valley area...

Getting the SF cabs to come to my house was so infuriating; nobody wanted to come pick me up in Presidio or Noe Valley.

I was actually banned from multiple cab companies, as - it turns out - they share caller data: I was calling multiple cab companies to my house (Because nobody would show) as a shotgun approach to getting a cab. A dispatcher told me I was blacklisted due to this practice; my response was that if the cab had shown up, I wouldnt do this...

They didnt care. (I had MANY calls where I called 20+ times and waited 2 hours.)

FUC THE SF CABS. PERIOD.

HOWEVER; I think that Uber (and ALL cabs) are way over priced.

The fact that I had to pay $75 to take me from SF to SFO - where I was FLYING to LAX from SFO for $99 - I found this ridiculous!

The fact is that all CAB fees are just not congruous with the service.

When A cab ride from a home in SF to SFO costs ~$80, but takes ~30 minutes, you're paying the equiv $160K per year for the services of a DRIVER...

This is not sustainable.

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#34

Post by icebraining »

rd108 wrote: post #13

Uber, Lyft and its ilk are half innovative, efficient tech services and half hypercapitalist scavengers employing workers while avoiding paying those pesky benefits, worker's compensation or damages to a dead six year old's family.

They're just trying to pass as a real cab company:

http://setexasrecord.com/news/280325-east-texas-family-files...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/23/nyregion/new-york-taxi-dri...

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#35

Post by jaksmit »

samstave wrote: post #33
rd108 wrote: post #13

Uber, Lyft and its ilk are half innovative, efficient tech services and half hypercapitalist scavengers employing workers while avoiding paying those pesky benefits, worker's compensation or damages to a dead six year old's family.

As a user f Uber since very early on, I half agree, half disagree. Uber is awesome -- ut the costing model fucking sucks. When in SF I lived in Presidio and Upper Market/Noe Valley area... Getting the SF cabs to come to my house was so infuriating; nobody wanted to come pick me up in Presidio or Noe Valley. I was actually banned from multiple cab companies, as - it turns out - they share caller data: I was calling mu…

if you are concerned about price, then why didn't you just use Uber X? I just did SF to SFO via Uber X and it was $30.

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#36

Post by enoch_r »

rd108 wrote: post #13

Uber, Lyft and its ilk are half innovative, efficient tech services and half hypercapitalist scavengers employing workers while avoiding paying those pesky benefits, worker's compensation or damages to a dead six year old's family.

On benefits and worker's comp: almost single UberX driver I've talked to has raved about Uber. Spontaneously. Why? Because the main way Uber saves money, compared to traditional taxi companies, isn't "avoiding paying those pesky benefits" or workers comp. They save money by not getting taxi medallions--part of a regulatory quota system that serves no purpose other than to artificially limit the number of cabs.

Note that since cab drivers can't usually afford hundreds of thousands of dollars for a taxi medallion, they have to lease them--so it's primarily people with a few hundred thousand dollars to spare (taxi companies and their investors) not drivers, that benefit from this hamstrung competition.

A lot of people criticize Uber because "it isn't really innovative, they are just skirting regulations." Well, maybe avoiding the regulations is the innovative part. It's a loophole, and to me (not a lawyer) it seems shocking that it's legally workable. But they've dramatically increased the incomes and freedom of cab drivers, and substantially decreased the price of cabs (I only take UberX, and it's at least 30% less than an equivalent cab here in Orange County, CA). And now that drivers and customers have experienced a medallion-free taxi system, the taxi companies are going to have a hard time regaining control.

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#37

Post by jacalata »

lxmorj wrote: post #32

The job they are paid to do is move people right? They aren't paid to monitor the app while driving. Is an employer liable for a worker crashing on the way to work?

Sometimes the employer is liable, yes: http://www.atblaw.net/blog/tag/employee-injured-on-way-to-wo...

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#38

Post by georgemcbay »

jboydyhacker wrote: post #26

Reading the headline I thought - well if there was no passenger- they are fine. However, if their whole model is based on drivers using an app to find passengers and the guy was hunting around for them when he hit the pedestrian- it's problematic. I guess Uber could take the position they assume the driver is stationary when getting new instructions.

I'm sure this ruling here gives them a bit of the cold sweats:

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/08/27/senders-of-texts-to-driv...

Granted it happened in NJ, not CA, and it isn't directly applicable anyway, but they might have a hard time with the same sort of idea applied to the way their entire dispatching model works.

I would think if the plaintiffs could prove conclusively the guy was actively operating the Uber app at the time of the accident (which they tend to imply in these stories but I have no idea if that's just spin) it would be nearly a slam dunk case in front of your average jury.

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#39

Post by samstave »

jaksmit wrote: post #35
samstave wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user f Uber since very early on, I half agree, half disagree. Uber is awesome -- ut the costing model fucking sucks. When in SF I lived in Presidio and Upper Market/Noe Valley area... Getting the SF cabs to come to my house was so infuriating; nobody wanted to come pick me up in Presidio or Noe Valley. I was actually banned from multiple cab companies, as - it turns out - they share caller data: I was calling mu…

if you are concerned about price, then why didn't you just use Uber X? I just did SF to SFO via Uber X and it was $30.

I've used Uber since day one -- Uber X didn't exist when I relied on it often for SFO trips ... even still, it's not a good mapping...

Re: Uber sued by family of six-year-old killed in San Francisco crash

#40

Post by cloudwizard »

Uber claims to be a platform like Ebay. When I buy something on Ebay, I pay the seller not Ebay.

When I get a ride on Uber, I pay Uber. Uber pays the driver. Uber cancelled the drivers account. They fired the driver. Uber is screwed. Luckily, they have a lot of money.

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