San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#31

Post by rtpg » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

btian wrote: post #18

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

Have you even visited Google's campus in Mountain View? There is no such thing as closed-off prison-like campus...

No I haven't. I meant more in that it seems very isolated, so it's made into a sort of self-sufficient bubble. Plus if you're going by bus you're pretty much stuck there. Having gone to a school in a similar situation ( way off city center, so in a bubble), I saw how the social environment ends up becoming very "lord of the flies"-y.

I like the illusion of an escape hatch.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#32

Post by BjoernKW » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

"Anthony Levandowski is building an unconscionable world of surveillance, control and automation," they wrote on flyers left near his house. "He is also your neighbour."

What were those people thinking? They're subtly but very clearly trying to intimidate that guy. This is like saying "We don't want the likes of you around here."

If those protesters really wanted to do something against surveillance and control they should hold those accountable who are responsible for the NSA disaster and things like Guantanamo. Instead, they chose to pick on an individual who isn't any more responsible for those issues than a factory worker producing weapons is for the war crimes committed with these weapons.

If they want to start a revolution they should be heading to Washington, D.C. instead of starting a petty revolt by bullying some guy who's neither responsible for the issues at hand nor for their own failures in life.

If gentrification helps driving people out of town who display such obnoxious behaviour then we can't have enough of it.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#33

Post by bermanoid » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:48 PM UTC

datphp wrote: post #10

paul_f wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me fix that for you: protesters are misguided.

I'm not sure I agree with that. There is a legion of people making six figures, who together have a lot of power if they were to try to do something. I know disruption or even violence won't help at first, but it raises awareness. Maybe then people can start talking about intelligent measures to help those who need it. I know if I was making 200k I'd be glad to be taxed an extra %, if that money was going towards hel…

Unfortunately this is mostly a zero-sum game: there's a very limited supply of housing in San Francisco, and it's always going to go to the highest bidder, which is the eternal gentrification struggle. Rich people deciding they're willing to pay more taxes won't help here, because it won't create more housing supply.

Even a direct redistribution scheme wouldn't do much, because the rich will still be able to outbid the poor for the scarce apartments. Short of rich people deciding they don't want to take that job in the Bay Area or government straight up banning them from moving there, I don't think there's much anyone can do to help prevent the poor from being displaced.

Getting SF to allow new construction would help a lot (there are probably thousands of developers that would love to build 100+ unit luxury complexes in the Mission), but at this point it seems that's something of a losing battle. Weirdly, it's the very people that are protesting the current influx of tech workers and rising rents that most viciously oppose new high-occupancy construction in the "true" SF neighborhoods because it would destroy their character, so it's a tough nut to crack.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#34

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #25

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

>If offices were built closer to the city, they could be smaller but I'm fairly convinced most people would consider it an upgrade to quality of life in general. What is this 'solution' solving exactly? These protests are targeting tech workers and tech companies because tech workers want to live in San Fran and thereby drive up the price of housing. How would that change if Google had offices in San Fran?!

Clearly: if the offices were in SF, Googlers would 1) overrun Muni, 2) Ride fixies to work, and/or 3) operate Google Shuttles within city limits only.

The lack of an attractive neighborhood and/or housing near Google HQ is another component of this issue.

I find the protests highly misguided, generally.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#35

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #28

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas has prisons out in the dusty plains, where prisoners are not bound nor fenced. Its the distance that makes it a prison. So in this way a very remote campus IS a prison - you have no practical choice but to exist in that ecosystem.

I understand the analogy, but anyone outside tech that reads an argument like that, especially if they've ever BEEN to an actual prison (even as a visitor), will have an extremely hard time hearing anything else about your argument.

Here's another one. A prison is a state of mind. I find the cute circus campuses offensive and distasteful. Stuck in one day in and day out, I would crave freedom.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#36

Post by rtpg » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:53 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #27

This is a quintessential embarrassment of riches. San Fran is powered by a real 21st century economy, which many other cities and countries are trying to recreate, and you still find something to complain about? What's the solution here? Not have tech companies that employ thousands of people (for upper-middle class wages) in the area?! Not have thousands of young educated people from all over the country and the wor…

>leave the downtown-core decrepit and crime-ridden

The companies aren't in downtown, they're out 40 miles away instead, so not paying local taxes or helping the local economy. Instead you just have the workers who basically just sleep in SF, paying property taxes but not even opting to using the public transportation to make it better.

> San Fran is powered by a real 21st century economy, which many other cities and countries are trying to recreate, and you still find something to complain about?

Based off of complaints from the tech community, it also seems to be a city with a lot of homelessness, really shitty public transportation, and dysfunctional regulations that end up causing rent to be even higher.

If you told anybody of a city where most of the world's innovation happen, you'd at least imagine a city with a functional system of mass transportation, but we can't seem to even get that right. San Fran should be the best city in the world.

The problem isn't that workers are living in the city, it's that they're not working there. People spend a lot of money where they end up working.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#37

Post by darkstar999 » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:55 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #25

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

>If offices were built closer to the city, they could be smaller but I'm fairly convinced most people would consider it an upgrade to quality of life in general. What is this 'solution' solving exactly? These protests are targeting tech workers and tech companies because tech workers want to live in San Fran and thereby drive up the price of housing. How would that change if Google had offices in San Fran?!

I thought the protest was about Google using the public bus lanes, etc for private use? This could eliminate that.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#38

Post by darkstar999 » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:55 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #25

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

>If offices were built closer to the city, they could be smaller but I'm fairly convinced most people would consider it an upgrade to quality of life in general. What is this 'solution' solving exactly? These protests are targeting tech workers and tech companies because tech workers want to live in San Fran and thereby drive up the price of housing. How would that change if Google had offices in San Fran?!

I thought the protest was about Google using the public bus lanes, etc for private use? This could eliminate that.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#39

Post by macspoofing » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:55 PM UTC

joeblau wrote: post #6

There is one thing that I've really come to love and respect about the city of San Francisco. They fight for what they want. I've seen protests for everything ranging from wars, to working conditions, to America's Cup worker wages. Most other places would just get rolled over by whomever has the money. Underneath this issue, there are some serious socioeconomic issues at hand that need to be addressed. One thing I've…

I'm glad you're able to make yourself feel better (and superior at the same time - 'most Engineers can't logically rationalize giving something away for free to someone who has done "nothing" for them' ) for $400 and let everyone know it. Money well-spent.

Re: San Francisco's guerrilla protest at Google buses swells into revolt

#40

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Jan 26, 2014, 2:58 PM UTC

btian wrote: post #18

rtpg wrote: post #8

I'm extremely biased because I think any effort to "normalize" a 40-mile commute is poison to any environment, but I still don't get why, if everyone working at places like Google want to live in SF, why can't Google and co. just have offices in the city? I get that they wouldn't be able to build their own little disneyworlds that way, but instead of having Google build an entire ecosystem, they could just have offic…

Have you even visited Google's campus in Mountain View? There is no such thing as closed-off prison-like campus...

Contrasting your typical office-park space, in which if you plan on eating off-campus you'll almost certainly have to drive someplace (typically several miles, often in choking noontime traffic), a city office space often offers a highly diverse environment within easy walking distance -- a few blocks.

To say nothing of the vastly greater transit service (though this is often overwhelmed and/or unreliable), and option to commute by other means (often bicycles).