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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

ariannasimpson.com

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#31

Post by rayiner »

> “Wow. Women don’t usually say that type of things”.

To be perfectly honest, this is something I might have thought (but even then had the sense not to say) when I was working as an engineer. The mere lack of women in tech leads to perceptions that make it unpleasant for women to enter the field. Most people interact with just a few spheres: people they work with, people they meet on the street, and their friends, which are often drawn from people they work with or people they went to school with. When you go to school with very few women, and work with very few women, as engineers usually do, your perception of the whole gender is disproportionately shaped by those women you meet on the street, in the course of day to day activities. For people who work in intellectually demanding fields, the people you meet on the street are quite likely to not be as smart as the people you work with or the people you went to school with. And that as a real impact.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#32

Post by 4bpp »

meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I don't know. Doing that would probably, consciously or not, forever put the author down in the other attendees' "difficult to deal with; better to stay clear of in the future" list. On the other hand, chances are the social repercussions the groper will suffer for his actions will be minimal regardless of whether he is called out or not.

There is a lot the unmentioned presumable majority of perfectly reasonable guys at that meeting could have done to make the few bad apples feel excluded and uncomfortable in a way which would far surpass any explicit callout by anyone in its effectivity, but unfortunately, in practice, most people are very reluctant to use social signalling in any rational or deliberate way.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#33

Post by rfnslyr »

So you didn't immediately tell him to stop and continue on with your life and fled to the internet just so you can get HN karma? Yeah I stopped reading right there. This is why "women in tech" are a problem, because they constantly put themselves on a pedestal.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#34

Post by rayiner »

blairbeckwith wrote: post #11

I agree wholeheartedly with this article, however I don't think it's fair to use such a wide brush. "This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at _This_ Bitcoin Meetup" would have been more appropriate. There are bad apples in every community, and it certainly sounds like the author met some, but it's important to realize that a few bad apples don't ruin the whole bushel.

Actually, the saying is that a few bad apples spoils the bunch, which refers to the tendency of decay or infestation to quickly spread throughout the bushel: http://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136017612/bad-apple-proverbs-t... ("But as the memory of rotting apples fades, the meaning of the 'bad apple' proverb has changed. In 19th century America, it was a staple of Sunday morning sermons: 'As one bad apple spoils the others, so you must show no quarter to sin or sinners.' Or it could suggest that finding one malefactor in a group should make you suspicious of everybody else. 'A bad apple spoils the bin,' one journalist wrote in 1898 of the Dreyfus Affair; if one officer is capable of forgery then why wouldn't others be as well? Back then, nobody ever talked about 'just a few bad apples' or 'only a few rotten apples' — the whole point was that even one was enough to taint the group.").

In this case, the saying, the real one, is apropos. It might just be a few bad apples, but they taint the whole culture.

{I actually used this phrase a couple of days ago, at which point my wife hit my with some FFA knowledge.}

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#35

Post by rfnslyr »

runjake wrote: post #30
blairbeckwith wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

disclaimer: I'm on her side. I've never really understood the potential-physical-confrontation argument. It must be a very, very small minority of men who's first reaction to being embarrassed and shamed by a woman is to physically assault her in public?

I am not a woman. I am a large, muscular male who doesn't get bothered by anyone. But it doesn't have to lead to actual physical assault to be uncomfortable or cause negative lasting effects in one's life. The intimidation, the mental abuse aspect of it is enough. If you've been mugged without being shot, it might make a little more sense to you. And really, he put his hands on her inappropriately, so he's already co…

Funny how far removed real problems are from our society.

"The intimidation, the mental abuse aspect of it is enough."

versus

Collecting wood in a forest 40km away so you can stoke a fire and your family can eat.

Tell the guy to get his hands off you, grab a seat, introduce yourself. Everyone needs an emotional baby sitter and therapist nowadays.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#36

Post by zasz »

meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

What exactly do you want her to say? "Hi, stop being a dick, because this kind of behavior is a serious turn off to women who want to be involved in tech?" That's obviously not going to fly.

So what about, "Hi, could you not awkwardly hug me?" What people say in response to that is, "Why are you being mean to me? I was just trying to be friendly." It's extremely hard to say something in the moment without getting stereotyped as a frigid bitch.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#37

Post by slewis »

meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

It's not on the author to say something. There were a handful of other people there who could have spoken up.

Please, everyone, if you witness this type of rude behavior, speak up. We are all, male, female, undecided, both etc. responsible for improving treatment of non-males in tech. Take an active role.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#38

Post by meritt »

4bpp wrote: post #32
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I don't know. Doing that would probably, consciously or not, forever put the author down in the other attendees' "difficult to deal with; better to stay clear of in the future" list. On the other hand, chances are the social repercussions the groper will suffer for his actions will be minimal regardless of whether he is called out or not. There is a lot the unmentioned presumable majority of perfectly reasonable guys…

I hope we're intelligent enough to differentiate between "unwelcome physical groping" and "overheard some guys make private a joke about 'dongles' and overreacted" but you do bring up a valid point certainly.

I guess I just get tired of people in general who complain about things and never take action to remedy it, then go back and garner support by preaching to the choir. I'm absolutely aghast that it happened to her but I just wish people would start being as vocal in person as they can be on their blogs.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#39

Post by 2gg2rg »

jpwright wrote: post #27
blairbeckwith wrote: post #11

I agree wholeheartedly with this article, however I don't think it's fair to use such a wide brush. "This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at _This_ Bitcoin Meetup" would have been more appropriate. There are bad apples in every community, and it certainly sounds like the author met some, but it's important to realize that a few bad apples don't ruin the whole bushel.

How many more posts like this are needed to convince you that the whole community of tech meetups is hostile towards women? Of course that individual deserves the lion's share of the blame, but writing this off as an isolated individual acting inappropriately misses the forest for the trees (i.e. misses the root cause [culture] for the proximate cause [assholes]). To further analogize, perhaps the bad apple was there…

> How many more posts like this are needed to convince you that the whole community of tech meetups is hostile towards women?

A whole lot more, because I don't see this shit at the tech meetups I go to.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#40

Post by clavalle »

blairbeckwith wrote: post #20
runjake wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really turned off by these posts, too. I roll my eyes and mutter "Christ, not another one". But I'm a male who doesn't have to worry about being groped and I keep my hands to myself. But let me guess how the reality turns out for her: - She says something about it. - The guy who is misbehaving is probably physically bigger than her. She may feel fearful of speaking up. or - She speaks up and gets called a "prude"…

disclaimer: I'm on her side. I've never really understood the potential-physical-confrontation argument. It must be a very, very small minority of men who's first reaction to being embarrassed and shamed by a woman is to physically assault her in public?

Then again, what kind of person gropes a stranger, in public, in front of a bunch of people who are sure to see and know who you are?

You really can't put anything past someone who has absolutely no restraint or regard for people.

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