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Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

jmk.io

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#31

Every single little thing he mentioned shouldn't be in the core product. Magento is not an all in one marketing, shop and aftersale solution; it is an eCommerce platform. Anything above/beyond that should be a plugin/separate solution.

I 100% agree with this. I honestly think Magento should basically drop almost every core 'feature' and just become a rock-solid platform to build upon.

I'm not sure the developer ecosystem that Magento currently has would be responsive to that - I only worked with it a little, but it seemed like 75%+ of the "solutions" to issues people ran into were provided by other devs saying "well, if you pay $$$ for my FooBarBaz plugin that problem will go away".

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#32

Anyone have a cache? EDIT : here it is. No infringement intended. Magento has been in decline since Varien sold to eBay. Magento Community Edition is dead. Magento Go is a failure surpassed by Shopify. Magento CE releases have dried up. So now what? Magento 2.0 sounds promising. However, Magento 2.0 is lead by developers-only. No marketeers are involved to communicate merchant needs. I have tested Magento 2.0 dev60 a…

I wish this was how the lion's share of articles were re-aggregated. Thanks

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#33
post #29

Magento has been poor software since Varien started trying to monetize. It has always been slower than necessary, a huge resource hog, and relatively complex to configure. The real problem is that there is nothing better out there. Magento is the Drupal of the eCommerce world - relatively prominent, but almost universally reviled by developers and not all that easy to use for users. It's the worst of many worlds. It'…

[deleted]

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#34

Anyone have a cache? EDIT : here it is. No infringement intended. Magento has been in decline since Varien sold to eBay. Magento Community Edition is dead. Magento Go is a failure surpassed by Shopify. Magento CE releases have dried up. So now what? Magento 2.0 sounds promising. However, Magento 2.0 is lead by developers-only. No marketeers are involved to communicate merchant needs. I have tested Magento 2.0 dev60 a…

The problem with Magento, like so many other OSS eCommerce platforms, is that of extensibility (or lack thereof), and the ensuing technical debt.

We've been making eCommerce solutions (not just sites - CRM, warehouse management, analytics, lots and lots of marketing tools) for nearly a decade now. We started out with OsC, played with Magento, and saw, 8 years ago, that the strategy of these platforms was, well, broken.

How? Well. Let's consider the typical scenario. Joe sells kites. Joe wants a website that helps him sell kites. Magento looks like it does what he wants, as it's got a cart and all that stuff. Joe finds a contractor who looks good, and has decent references from his current clients. They start work. Part way through the build, Joe realises that he wants to sell custom-printed kites, and to do this, he needs to take a deposit, and then charge the customer the balance. "Uh-oh", thinks the developer, "I'm on fixed costs, and there's no plugin for that. The architecture is a nightmare... screw it, I'll just chuck it in the core and worry about it later". Joe is happy, as his site does what he needs it to, and the developer is happy because he got paid.

Six months later, Joe reads about a security update, and wants to apply it. His developer sucks his teeth, and applies it, manually re-patching in his previous hack, because making a plugin is hard, m'kay (never mind that in many scenarios, you can't make a plugin to make whatever you need to happen, happen). Joe wants another addition, and another hack is born.

This cycle continues for a while, until the developer fears looking at Joe's code-base, and Joe is pissed off that everything takes a long time, and that upgrades can't be done/take forever, because the developer is having to re-implement, and re-implement, and re-implement, rather than move forwards.

The other side of this is that a magento install will run a magento site - not ten, not two on different databases, and no mix-and-match of either, meaning that you end up with a whole bunch of code-bases, many of which differ, even if you're a shop exclusively running magento for your N clients.

It's not clear who Magento is built for. It's not for developers, as it's painful to work with... it's not for the end user, as the front-end experience is so-so at best, and again, hard to customise without screwing up upgradability... and it's definitely not for the merchant, as it's featureless, barren, slow, and ultimately expensive to run.

So what we did was build an eCommerce platform where everything is extensible and overridable. Core method doesn't quite do what you want? Not a problem, write a client-specific one, just keep your interfaces consistent, and you won't break maintainability. You can upgrade the core with impunity. You can hang as many sites as you can grind out off a single install. We deploy continuously.

As a result, we've been able to focus on building features marketeers and merchandisers want, by being able to build something once, respond quickly to market and client demands, and roll it out widely with minimal effort - rather than being stuck on the terminal treadmill of broken upgrade paths.

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#35
post #18

My main problem with Magento was it's lack of an API to integrate with 3rd-party systems. Someone implementing a competitor should start with a decent API, and build the interface on top of that. If I had time and money, I would do this myself. Also the EAV database was horrible to deal with.

Is it going to use a similar scheme after the rewrite?

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#37

Every single little thing he mentioned shouldn't be in the core product. Magento is not an all in one marketing, shop and aftersale solution; it is an eCommerce platform. Anything above/beyond that should be a plugin/separate solution.

That's not the way the small businesses that use Magento think. They want one, all-singing all-dancing tool that does everything they could ever imagine wanting. And they never want to update it or maintain it or have to think about it.

I run a web dev company and we specialize in ecommerce. What you're saying couldn't be further from the truth. Our clients want a shopping cart that can evolve with their functional needs. Magento does just that in its current form. From a marketing perspective (which we also specialize in ecommerce SEM/CRO) Magento can handle everyone of our objectives with a module. If not, we build one.

Everyone on HN gloats about Shopify. Shopify is a plain ecommerce platform with a simple to use backend that also implements these marketing functions through plugins/extensions/modules. The difference is that with Shopify your functional needs can't always be answered as they evolve.

Other self-hosted ecommerce platforms are still playing catch up with Magento. It's not a perfect solution, but it's still the best one out there.

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#38
post #3

The developer hostility in this is astounding.

Indeed, he should just shut up and program all of that himself and put the source code on github. He, without developers slowing him down he's probably finished in a week....

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#39

Anyone have a cache? EDIT : here it is. No infringement intended. Magento has been in decline since Varien sold to eBay. Magento Community Edition is dead. Magento Go is a failure surpassed by Shopify. Magento CE releases have dried up. So now what? Magento 2.0 sounds promising. However, Magento 2.0 is lead by developers-only. No marketeers are involved to communicate merchant needs. I have tested Magento 2.0 dev60 a…

The problem with Magento, like so many other OSS eCommerce platforms, is that of extensibility (or lack thereof), and the ensuing technical debt. We've been making eCommerce solutions (not just sites - CRM, warehouse management, analytics, lots and lots of marketing tools) for nearly a decade now. We started out with OsC, played with Magento, and saw, 8 years ago, that the strategy of these platforms was, well, broke…

Okay, you got my attention. What is your product? (Your profile is empty).

Re: Magento is dead – Merchants want a suite of marketing tools, not refactored code

#40

> A developer focus on Magento 2.0 gives us jQuery, OWASP security policies, faster product imports, better performance and less CSS. But it does nothing to advance merchant's needs. Merchants don't need security, performance, and a more easily developable system for the developers they hire to build on?

Of course not, it's just silly developers creating spaghetti code to keep themselves in business /s
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