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Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

bloomberg.com

31–40 of 64 posts

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#31
post #3

Italy: always at the forefront of legislative innovation to kill the internet. Piratebay blocks? Check. Fighting encryption and anonimity? Check. Taxing the crap out of anything that moves? Check. Cutting investments in r&d and universities across thr board? Check. And then they wonder why their economy sucks.

This is a far too simplistic analysis of a multifaceted issue with no single answer. It's the kind of thing I'd expect to hear on Fox.

Yes. I believe it's an artefact of the popularity of the site that that type of comment is becoming more common. We've seen a noticeable increase in trolling and simplistic bias-driven comments over the past year (i.e. comments that suggest that the commenter cannot even conceive why someone might not share their viewpoint).

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#32
post #11

I'm Italian. Here tax burden for artisans, small business, big companies is over 50%. What if we could shift part of the taxation from artisans to big multinationals? What's wrong with this idea?

The problem is that you are erecting trade barriers in order to do this, by forcing ads to be sold in Italy. And the deeper problem is that every country would like to shift its tax burdens to "big multinationals" but there are tax and trade agreements to impose some fairness and order. If an advertising company really were running some of their operation from Italy, they should certainly pay tax there (and not, say,…

"And the deeper problem is that every country would like to shift its tax burdens to "big multinationals""

This is of course, 100% the problem. None of these countries seem to believe they can support themselves long term on the tax revenues earned by just their local people and businesses.

If that's really the case, they are doomed, long term, without changes.

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#33
post #11

I'm Italian. Here tax burden for artisans, small business, big companies is over 50%. What if we could shift part of the taxation from artisans to big multinationals? What's wrong with this idea?

It'll be great if someone can pay my bill. Unfortunately, in real world this won't happen. Big Corps. have ways to get around taxation. And if the tax burden is big, it's probably of gov. incompetence.

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#34
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you are erecting trade barriers in order to do this, by forcing ads to be sold in Italy. And the deeper problem is that every country would like to shift its tax burdens to "big multinationals" but there are tax and trade agreements to impose some fairness and order. If an advertising company really were running some of their operation from Italy, they should certainly pay tax there (and not, say,…

Said tax and trade agreements don't impose fairness and order, as much as they tie every participating nation down in a race to the bottom. Any board of directors would be considered to be out of their minds if for the sake of a single, non-critical contract, they signed agreements that completely tied their hands in how their firm should run. On the other hand, when governments do it, they are heroes. Disclaimer: I'…

There is a difference between a territorial tax system and tariffs.

If properly implemented, territorial tax systems do not create a race to the bottom, because countries compete for the quality of service they can offer to businesses that operate there. In theory, a rich individual could live in a tiny country with no income tax, but the moment they tried to put that money to work, they would have to operate in some other country which imposed territorial taxation.

On the other hand, this law is more like a tariff. It seeks to impose a tax on value created (i.e. the selling of an ad to an Italian business) whether or not that value was created in Italy or not.

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#35
post #27

Google became too greedy and this is the result of it. I, for one, in support of this law. You can't harvest billions of profit worldwide, then sneak it all through tax heavens and expect it to continue indefinitely. Someone will get weary of this practice. As a thought experiment, imagine the US reaction if Google was an Italian company - making loads of money in the US and paying 0 taxes :)

The point becomes moot if you eliminate corporate income tax. You want companies to pay salaries, not taxes.

Good point. Could you please remind us why this hasn't been done yet? Or where done?

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#36
post #7

Google, Starbucks Corp. (SBUX) and Amazon.com Inc. have been criticized for strategies that shift billions of dollars of profits offshore.[...] Google last year moved nearly $12 billion to the Bermuda unit, the majority of its worldwide income, cutting more than $2 billion off its global income tax bill. Google’s Italian unit last year reported total income taxes of just 1.8 million euros, corporate filings show. Goo…

Maybe I'm wrong, but with this law Google is not able to sell ads in Italy. So if they still want to do that they need to open an Italian company and therefore pay taxes in Italy. So, for Italy at least, things would change.

Depends, what is taxed in Italy: profit or revenue?

An italian subsidiary would have to pay its mother company for the services it provides (which is everything, since no user would be serviced from Italy). So the Italian company could easily make 0 (or very few) profit.

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#37
post #17
post #10

The biggest problem with this law is not its effect on google: the way it's written now forbids any Italian internet user from visualizing ads that were not purchased from an Italian company, and this applies to all websites. So while Google might be forced to comply, most international websites won't, rendering them automatically illegal in Italy, which is probably unenforceable. While I agree with the spirit of mak…

Have you read the law? Do it. Rendering is not illegal, but if you're an Italian company you can buy online ads only from another Italian company.

It puts Italian companies at a significant disadvantage in online advertising, which is fascinating. I wonder how many marginal companies will be incorporated outside Italy's borders because of this law. It will be fascinating to see the analysis come down in ten or fifteen years (assuming the law lasts that long).

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#38
post #11

I'm Italian. Here tax burden for artisans, small business, big companies is over 50%. What if we could shift part of the taxation from artisans to big multinationals? What's wrong with this idea?

There's a good chance that artisans, small businesses, and big companies will pay most of this additional tax, since it adds a percentage to all online advertising purchases in the country. It's not like internet advertising companies are just going to hold their prices constant and pay an additional portion of them in taxes. The local Italian companies created by this law will sell the ads at a markup which is nearly the same as the tax plus the new overhead of administering the Italian companies.

Re: Italy Approves ‘Google Tax’ on Internet Companies

#40
post #11

I'm Italian. Here tax burden for artisans, small business, big companies is over 50%. What if we could shift part of the taxation from artisans to big multinationals? What's wrong with this idea?

Tying your country's future ability to support its population in any large part to the whims of companies that are non-local sees like a self-evidently bad idea for any number of reasons.

For starters, they have no skin in the game. Unlike local businesses, they don't care what happens, at all. At least the mildly local large companies have some cares about what happens to the country (because they own land, have in-country employees). But the large multinationals basically don't. The number of in-country employees is usually very small.

Second, you have no control over their performance or policy decisions. They can do things that are completely and totally devastating to you (like close down the local branch and stop paying taxes), and you can do nothing, since you have no physical control over anything. Plus, you know, you will now be dependent on their performance globally (this is likely to happen to any sufficiently large company anyway, but ...)

As a result, as you become more dependent on them for tax revenue, government will have to do more and more to appease them to keep that revenue flowing. You have to be very careful, because other than X amount of revenue, you literally have nothing they need. In a country like Italy, the amount of money is not large, so you can't just play hardball with them, because they'll just take their ball and go elsewhere, and you will be left high and dry. If a few multinationals do it, Italy may very well have to run and appease a number of other companies to keep their revenue in Italy.

These are just some of the simple reasons. The short answer is: If you do this, you may as well just hand them your government (or prepare for long term economic hardship).

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