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First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

newscientist.com

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Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#31

Post by maaku »

ceejayoz wrote: post #26
maaku wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And promptly sterilized. Unfortunately most plausible life forms require meters of soil/rock surrounding them to survive the harsh space environment (probably more in the vicinity of Jupiter).

We're finding extremophiles in all sorts of places we didn't expect. Radiation-resistant bacterial spores are hardly outside the realm of possibility - we've already found some.

Yes, but context. They're not likely to have evolved inside the relative oasis of Europa's oceans (or put differently, they're not likely to have retained any extremophile traits they might have once had).

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#32

Post by mturmon »

trekky1700 wrote: post #30
deletes wrote: post #3

As warm as the word vapor may sound it is actually really cold. Europa's oceans, if they exist, are -50°C and lower.

Upon further research, where are you getting this number from? http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2002/pdf/1824.pdf

Thanks for turning up some real info. The paper you found is speculative, but the options they consider all have a temperature range within a few degrees of zero C.

They entertain some scenarios whereby stratification could allow the deep temperature to get as high as ~4C without breaching the icy surface.

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#33

Post by ceejayoz »

maaku wrote: post #31
ceejayoz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're finding extremophiles in all sorts of places we didn't expect. Radiation-resistant bacterial spores are hardly outside the realm of possibility - we've already found some.

Yes, but context. They're not likely to have evolved inside the relative oasis of Europa's oceans (or put differently, they're not likely to have retained any extremophile traits they might have once had).

Some water is clearly getting to the surface. If there's life, at least some of it is being exposed to decent levels of radiation.

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#34

Post by qhoc »

If I take a wild guess (into the next 50 years), we probably will be able to land on Europa. After collecting dirt and water, we found nothing. However, scientists didn't give up on it and debate life could be existed in deep ocean, which is way deeper than what we can go even on Earth. There you go: we have to go far across space and end up swimming really deep. Too many technological barriers. It'd be even more disappointing when we actually find out living organisms, then they look so similar to what we already have on Earth. Again, my "wild guess"

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#35

Post by mturmon »

deletes wrote: post #19
mturmon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. I did not think that the temperature of Europa's oceans (below their probable icy crust) has been well-constrained. To the extent that it has, I think the subsurface temperature is expected to be much greater than -50C in many places (the mechanism is tidal heating). There is a general belief that Europa is likely to have significant liquid water below its icy surface. The phase diagram for water (first image at…

Not really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fot3m7kyLn4 Also. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercooling

So, I'm assuming you don't have any basis for your assertion above? Because this is nothing to do with Europa.

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#36

Post by jmpe »

qhoc wrote: post #34

If I take a wild guess (into the next 50 years), we probably will be able to land on Europa. After collecting dirt and water, we found nothing. However, scientists didn't give up on it and debate life could be existed in deep ocean, which is way deeper than what we can go even on Earth. There you go: we have to go far across space and end up swimming really deep. Too many technological barriers. It'd be even more dis…

Would be cool if they got there and found layer upon layer of carcasses resembling whales, fish, trilobites ... seasoned with smaller organisms. A record of evolution, deposited over thousands of years of geyser activity, perfectly preserved and documenting every evolutionary bifurcation that ever swam too close to one of these blowholes.

I can dream, can't I?

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#37

Post by CanSpice »

jmpe wrote: post #36
qhoc wrote: post #34

If I take a wild guess (into the next 50 years), we probably will be able to land on Europa. After collecting dirt and water, we found nothing. However, scientists didn't give up on it and debate life could be existed in deep ocean, which is way deeper than what we can go even on Earth. There you go: we have to go far across space and end up swimming really deep. Too many technological barriers. It'd be even more dis…

Would be cool if they got there and found layer upon layer of carcasses resembling whales, fish, trilobites ... seasoned with smaller organisms. A record of evolution, deposited over thousands of years of geyser activity, perfectly preserved and documenting every evolutionary bifurcation that ever swam too close to one of these blowholes. I can dream, can't I?

That's unlikely because ice is fairly dynamic. These geysers are proof that new ice is constantly being formed, and over the timescale needed to see any sort of evolution, the ice layer would have been reformed countless times.

It'd be like finding fossils around Kilauea in Hawaii. You don't because there's new land being formed all the time, and there's not enough time for fossils to be formed.

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#38

Post by jmpe »

CanSpice wrote: post #37
jmpe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be cool if they got there and found layer upon layer of carcasses resembling whales, fish, trilobites ... seasoned with smaller organisms. A record of evolution, deposited over thousands of years of geyser activity, perfectly preserved and documenting every evolutionary bifurcation that ever swam too close to one of these blowholes. I can dream, can't I?

That's unlikely because ice is fairly dynamic. These geysers are proof that new ice is constantly being formed, and over the timescale needed to see any sort of evolution, the ice layer would have been reformed countless times. It'd be like finding fossils around Kilauea in Hawaii. You don't because there's new land being formed all the time, and there's not enough time for fossils to be formed.

I imagined that such a geyser has a limited lifespan. Same mechanism as why islands like Hawaii or the super volcano in Yellowstone come in chains. Same thing could be happening on Europa: the icy crust moves and the "hot spot" is fairly fixed. Or a local vent collapses after x years and another weak spot opens. In those scenarios the area surrounding a geyser could preserve a chapter of the planet's history.

Re: First water plume seen firing from Jupiter moon Europa

#39

Post by leephillips »

sputknick wrote: post #11
eldude wrote: post #4

Checkout the movie Europa Report to feed your SciFi fantasies.

Second this. Excellent random movie selection on Netflix.

Third it. The movie starts out looking like it's going to be pretty cheesy, but stick with it. This is a unique film.
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