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Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

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Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#31

Post by mariusz79 »

MaulingMonkey wrote: post #11
mariusz79 wrote: post #5

Lack of time? Come on that's just a really lame excuse. It's hard but even with full school, full time work, part time startup, and two kids it's not that hard to find two three hours a week to do some os dev.

The fact that you can still squeeze in two-three hours a week to do some os dev is a really lame excuse for working that hard; there is more to life than work. And there are those with more time obligations than what you've listed on top of struggling to make ends meet. Not everyone, granted -- and for some, lack of time will indeed be a lame excuse -- but it sounds like you're generalizing to everyone.

Lack of time is a lame excuse. Always. I often use it, but I'm not lying to myself, blaming stuff on something else. It's just an excuse. There is 24 hours in a day. If you sleep for 8 hours like I do, you still have time for 8 hours of work, and spend 3 hours with your kids, you still have 5 hours to do something productive. Even if you waste 3 hours on stuff like eating, commuting or watching television you still have 2 hours to do something productive.. And we should not forget about the weekend and holidays where you have eight hours that are usually spend working, freed up. And working hard? I'm lazy and I hate working hard, that's why I'm a soft dev. :)

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#32

Post by steveklabnik »

goggles99 wrote: post #10

> One of the spaces you might think would be a gateway for developers of color to enter the industry is through open source software development. You don't have to know somebody or have a degree in software engineering or get hired to participate in an open-source project. You can jump right in and start writing some code. This sounds like the author is resigned to the fact that colored people don't go to college. Is…

> colored people

Just for your own sake, in case you're not a native speaker: you shouldn't ever, ever say this. The words you use send social signals to others, and 'colored people' sounds really, really, really racist.

This is distinct from 'person of color,' which is not. Use it instead.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#33

Post by sergiotapia »

knackernews wrote: post #19

I disagree with racism being an issue keeping blacks & latinos from open source / free software development and I don't understand why people keep talking about barriers to software development. These days computers are ubiquitous (in the developed world at least). You can be poor but still afford a computer, and all the knowledge and tools you need are available for free. The only potential barriers I see is having…

>I don't understand why people keep talking about barriers to software development.

Because 'white guilt', and people need _something_ to post about in their tumblr blogs. ;)

I'd like to see some specific cases of racism in open source. I've been working professionally for 7 years, and I haven't seen a single case of racism anywhere in open source. I just can't imagine it; who would put themselves out there like that doing something terrible, and what community would allow that?

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#34

Post by mariusz79 »

NAFV_P wrote: post #14
mariusz79 wrote: post #5

Lack of time? Come on that's just a really lame excuse. It's hard but even with full school, full time work, part time startup, and two kids it's not that hard to find two three hours a week to do some os dev.

Lack of time? Come on that's just a really lame excuse. It's hard but even with full school, full time work, part time startup, and two kids it's not that hard to find two three hours a week to do some os dev. When it comes to teaching yourself to code, two to three hours per week is lame, what you learnt in one week is likely to have been forgotten by the next.

So yes, let's not do anything and blame stuff on some lame stuff like lack of time.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#35

Post by theorique »

knowitall wrote: post #25

"more than 8 in 10 open source developers are white" According to Wikipedia 72% of the population of the USA are white, so maybe 8 in 10 is not really that much of an indication of discrimination or disadvantage. (72% boils down to "more than 7 in 10").

While OSS is not 'just' a US thing, it is probably heavily weighted toward US participation. Although India and China have huge populations of technically educated people, the language barrier is probably a factor there.

I would imagine that the region with next highest contribution is Europe, which comprehensive English teaching. (also: mostly white)

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#36

Post by jere »

I love all the commenters in uproar: this can't be racism!!! Notice that the word "racism" was used in the article 0 times.

>[Open source software] contribution takes time; I don't think anyone would contest that. Getting familiar with a project, finding out where you can fit into it, reading and responding to issues, testing and submitting patches, writing documentation. All of that requires a good deal of time.

>Marginalized people in tech — women, people of color, people with disabilities, LGBTQ people, and others — have less free time for a few major reasons: dependent care, domestic work and errands, and pay inequity.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#37

Post by steveklabnik »

sergiotapia wrote: post #33
knackernews wrote: post #19

I disagree with racism being an issue keeping blacks & latinos from open source / free software development and I don't understand why people keep talking about barriers to software development. These days computers are ubiquitous (in the developed world at least). You can be poor but still afford a computer, and all the knowledge and tools you need are available for free. The only potential barriers I see is having…

>I don't understand why people keep talking about barriers to software development. Because 'white guilt', and people need _something_ to post about in their tumblr blogs. ;) I'd like to see some specific cases of racism in open source. I've been working professionally for 7 years, and I haven't seen a single case of racism anywhere in open source. I just can't imagine it; who would put themselves out there like that…

Earlier in the thread knowtheory describes a specific situation that happens over and over and over again.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#38

Post by sergiotapia »

steveklabnik wrote: post #37
sergiotapia wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand why people keep talking about barriers to software development. Because 'white guilt', and people need _something_ to post about in their tumblr blogs. ;) I'd like to see some specific cases of racism in open source. I've been working professionally for 7 years, and I haven't seen a single case of racism anywhere in open source. I just can't imagine it; who would put themselves out there like that…

Earlier in the thread knowtheory describes a specific situation that happens over and over and over again.

Are you talking about: "It's a sad joke Rubyconf attendees yearly confuse @bryanl and @daksis with each other, but it's happened at every Rubyconf i've been too (which is granted 3 but it's there)."?

I don't think there's anything racist about that if it's an honest mistake the audience makes. Or did you mean to say the actual presenters announce them by the wrong name?

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#39

Post by srl »

Theodores wrote: post #4

...or coders with two X chromosomes? Allegedly 1.5% of open source software contributors are female. So you are more likely to win the lottery than finding yourself working with a black woman on an open source project.

I would expect that the two aren't independent -- the proportion of black women to black men could well be very much higher than the proportion of white women to white men. The same qualities and situation that help a black man become a programmer despite the various forms of systemic bias would also be useful to a woman.

Re: Why Isn't Open Source A Gateway For Coders Of Color?

#40

Post by mariusz79 »

icebraining wrote: post #9
mariusz79 wrote: post #5

Lack of time? Come on that's just a really lame excuse. It's hard but even with full school, full time work, part time startup, and two kids it's not that hard to find two three hours a week to do some os dev.

Sure, but many of us are lazy and don't have the motivation to work so much. The thing is, if you have two populations with roughly the same amount of lazy people, but one has on average more free time, it's more likely that it'll produce an higher volume of contributions to FOSS projects.

Yes, I totally agree, but I'm sure you can agree that it's still just a matter of deciding what you want to do with your free time. If you decide that the free time you have is better spend watching Braking Bad or playing EVE, you should not use "lack of time" excuse for any other activity. It's all about priorities.
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