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Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

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Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#32
PHP is popular because of it's simplicity, low cost (like zero) of entry and because of Wordpress.

But the pay rate for PHP developers is miniscule because every Pakistani and Indian is a PHP expert for $1/hr. Try to post a $20 professional website job on Elancer - and in 10 minutes you'll get 20 lancers eating each other for your "business".

So "thriving" is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#34

I don't do much web development, just a product once every year or so to play around with an idea. Always in PHP. A few months ago I was asked by a close friend to help them with a not-so-serious site. I decided that I'd use Rails, because, hey, I've heard nothing but good about it from HN and the like. I was absolutely blown away by how much work it required to get started. That, and how painful it was to explain to…

I was in the same boat, I had spent years creating PHP websites and then was faced with the Rails framework. When you're first getting used to MVC, it seems very counter intuitive. I ended up using Symfony to get used to MVC while sticking with PHP, and now have switched to Rails and wouldn't dream of going back.

When you're first starting with it, especially moving from creating PHP files, it seems very counter intuitive and over complicated. But once you get used to the layout, you understand why it really is far superior for creating websites.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#35
One of the main reasons it continues to thrive is that any person with an idea looking to "make a website" will almost always first find PHP when searching. That's how I started with PHP. I had something I wanted to build, looked up how to make websites, and found PHP.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#36
The workflow he lists for CGI/PHP is one where people work right off of the live server. This is no way to work when working on complex software. Typical PHP oriented hosting services are basically PaaS with MySQL and PHP good to go.

Deployment, Staging, Package Management, etc are worth their weight in steps over the long run.

Like a few people have mentioned, Boiler-Plate/Template projects are how many of us work around quickly bootstrapping a new project.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#37

I don't do much web development, just a product once every year or so to play around with an idea. Always in PHP. A few months ago I was asked by a close friend to help them with a not-so-serious site. I decided that I'd use Rails, because, hey, I've heard nothing but good about it from HN and the like. I was absolutely blown away by how much work it required to get started. That, and how painful it was to explain to…

shameless plug but next time you want to do a web-app/site consider our product (crudzilla.com)...it is basically a web-dev-to-deployment solution in one package.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#38
post #32

PHP is popular because of it's simplicity, low cost (like zero) of entry and because of Wordpress. But the pay rate for PHP developers is miniscule because every Pakistani and Indian is a PHP expert for $1/hr. Try to post a $20 professional website job on Elancer - and in 10 minutes you'll get 20 lancers eating each other for your "business". So "thriving" is to be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't think that's a fair evaluation of any language. I also don't see how Ruby or Node or Python don't have a zero cost of entry.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#39
post #18
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's because PHP operates at thermodynamic equilibrium and creating order from those states requires the expenditure of energy. Rails is great for creating a site with a form where people can upload images, it's a 20 to 30 minute project in rails, pretty much just take any rails blog tutorial and add paperclip. (Note, it's not a 20 minute project for anyone who doesn't already know rails) Rails is not for non-…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillato... -- the AED is worse in every way than a properly trained professional with the right tools, except for one way: its there, it sort-of works, and you can't beat something with nothing. Requiring a professional is a flaw, not a virtue. It's particularly problematic in our industry, where the end-user and most of the people involved in the production are no…

> Requiring a professional is a flaw, not a virtue.

Your statement depends entirely on the context. I agree that requiring a professional to assemble my IKEA furniture would be a flaw. Requiring a professional to assemble my custom marble kitchen countertop totally makes sense and I'd hardly slam IKEA for not having such a package in Aisle 12.

Re: Why PHP continues to thrive in the age of the PaaS

#40

I don't do much web development, just a product once every year or so to play around with an idea. Always in PHP. A few months ago I was asked by a close friend to help them with a not-so-serious site. I decided that I'd use Rails, because, hey, I've heard nothing but good about it from HN and the like. I was absolutely blown away by how much work it required to get started. That, and how painful it was to explain to…

You're making the mistake of conflating PHP the language with Rails the Framework. I can do your app in Rails pretty damn quickly at this point (with one of my current skeleton frameworks I can add authentication administration and other nice features pretty much "for free" as well) But tell me I have to do it CodeIgniter or Laravel and I'd be completely lost for days.

The question then is, can you throw together a website in Ruby? Plus, have your non-technical folks be able to edit the templates?
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