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No Girls Allowed

polygon.com

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Re: No Girls Allowed

#31

Post by rmk2 »

spindritf wrote: post #24

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it? I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours. Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing. Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary cha…

The analysis of the influence of media onto the individual was, in fact, the subject that was at the very heart of the establishment of modern empirical sociology. A good start for further reading is the Princeton Radio Research Project[1], with a follow-up reading on its director, Paul Lazarsfeld[2].

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Project

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lazarsfeld

Re: No Girls Allowed

#32

Post by samastur »

tomp wrote: post #28
spindritf wrote: post #24

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it? I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours. Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing. Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary cha…

I remember all the fear mongering about violence in computer games (especially first-person shooters). Now, there is a whole generation of 20-somethings that grew up staring at the screen and shooting people and monsters, and crime rates have not gone up (in fact, they are falling IIRC). Accordingly, I don't think marketing can change our desires and behaviour. Sure, it can change what we buy through brand-perception…

Your example may be a proof that violence in games does not cause violence in person, but it isn't a proof that it has no effect. In essence I may be fearful of the wrong scenario, but that isn't the same as me not having a good reason to fear.

Personally I think opulence of violence in media makes us number when confronted with images or stories of real violence then we would be otherwise.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#33

Post by saraid216 »

crusso wrote: post #12
lclarkmichalek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument kind of ignores marketing. If I spend several million (probably billions cumulatively at this point) telling people that product X should be associated with characteristic Y which is traditionally assigned more to one gender than another, then I'm likely to be modifying the market to an extent that you cannot truthfully say that market dynamics provide a reason for the disparity that will emerge.

I'd be willing to bet that you don't have at least 2 non-twin children. They want what they want. They have desires to be boys, girls, rough, quiet, loud, masculine, feminine, etc. all without (and often in spite of) being influenced to the contrary. Advertising just showcases things that they already mostly want. It doesn't completely change their desires.

I know a father who claims that his daughter does math specifically because she knows it makes him happy.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#35

Post by knowitall »

My first girl-friend threatened to leave me in case I bought a game boy. It's not just stereotypes from the media, it's also an experience that lots of men have made in their lives. But that doesn't mean we don't like the idea of women playing games. Quite the opposite. I still remember the first time I saw a woman wearing an Atari T-Shirt. I could hardly believe my eyes... Turns out by then Atari didn't really exist anymore and was being rebranded by whoever bought the Trademark, but still (I was attracted, but I didn't talk to her, so no further story to that).

It's just that it feels like a waste of time trying to get women interested in games. If they want to play, fine, but why try to make them? (Speaking from the consumer perspective - game makers of course have different incentives).

Next week I plan to have a C64 revival party. I will invite women, curious to see how many of them will also play...

My advice for women interested in computer games: just do it/try it. Don't waste time wondering if you are allowed to do it.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#36

Post by Jare »

hownottowrite wrote: post #6

In 1983, North America experienced a massive recession in the video game industry, now known as the video game crash. The crash had devastating effects, bankrupting game company after game company. At its peak, the revenues for video games in the U.S. sat at $3.2 billion in 1983. By 1985, revenues fell a whopping 97 percent to approximately $100 million. There are many factors behind the crash. The key factor is that…

Appearances can deceive.

The current casual gaming market is also flooded with fantastic games, and with games that, despite being accused of low quality under certain criteria, have millions of fans and regular players that love them. There's a great game waiting for anyone who may want to play something. Low prices, Steam/etc sales, and free-to-play games mean that getting the wrong game is not painful to the consumer, and remove the problem where consumers stop buying games.

The games industry (including casual and hardcore) has many problems and pitfalls for individual studios or teams. But in terms of market size, it is pretty healthy and likely to stay that way.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#37

Post by junto »

spindritf wrote: post #24

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it? I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours. Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing. Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary cha…

Having a daughter about the same age so it gives me a bit of insight.

She doesn't get to watch TV. Her playgroup has no major bias towards pink for girls (actually even deliberate in their avoidance of such stereotyping). My wife secretly detests pink and girly stuff and is/was a tomboy at heart. We do not discourage or encourage any particular colour or style.

There are no obvious factors in my daughter's life that should bias her towards pink girly toys, yet she is absolutely obsessed with girly pink clothes and toys.

I honestly can't fathom it. Pink attraction seems to be built in. Like a moth to a flame.

Recently she asked for a pirate ship for her birthday, so it isn't all bad.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#38

Post by knowitall »

k_os wrote: post #14
lclarkmichalek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That argument kind of ignores marketing. If I spend several million (probably billions cumulatively at this point) telling people that product X should be associated with characteristic Y which is traditionally assigned more to one gender than another, then I'm likely to be modifying the market to an extent that you cannot truthfully say that market dynamics provide a reason for the disparity that will emerge.

Do you believe marketers have an agenda about indoctrinating girls to like pink? In the hopes that you are not a conspiracy theorist you must assume marketers haven't done any research about what girls innately like and are purely marketing products based on what you might call 'traditional' views. It's much easier to market sugar than it is to market broccoli so that's what most foods marketed today contain. I don't…

A handy way to sell things twice if boys and girls need different colors. Maybe not so much for dolls, but certainly for clothes (can't pass on clothes from older sibling if gender differs).

Perhaps the main desire being served is to be able to announce "I am a boy" or "I am a girl".

Also note that there aren't many pink first person shooters.

Re: No Girls Allowed

#39

Post by ajitk »

tomp wrote: post #28
spindritf wrote: post #24

Is there any non-anecdotal evidence that marketing has anywhere near the power this article ascribes to it? I hear this a lot lately. Some people believe that media have an almost magical power of shaping culture and behaviours. Beauty? Cosmo propaganda. Boys liking different toys than girls? Marketing. Yet when you dig a little deeper, studies on priming usually get wee p-values and barely significant, temporary cha…

I remember all the fear mongering about violence in computer games (especially first-person shooters). Now, there is a whole generation of 20-somethings that grew up staring at the screen and shooting people and monsters, and crime rates have not gone up (in fact, they are falling IIRC). Accordingly, I don't think marketing can change our desires and behaviour. Sure, it can change what we buy through brand-perception…

Don't ads create false memories[1] and consequently our behavior?

[1] http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/05/ads-implant-false-...

Re: No Girls Allowed

#40

Post by booyaa00 »

chalst wrote: post #25
crusso wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be willing to bet that you don't have at least 2 non-twin children. They want what they want. They have desires to be boys, girls, rough, quiet, loud, masculine, feminine, etc. all without (and often in spite of) being influenced to the contrary. Advertising just showcases things that they already mostly want. It doesn't completely change their desires.

You moved the goalposts there a little: why the "completely" in "It doesn't completely change their desires"? What children want is influenced by what their peers want, and what peer groups find desirable is influenced, among other things, by merchandising-related children's TV programming. When I was young, there was far less difference between boys toys and girls toys than there is now.

Woah there. Even when a child is 1 or 2, they start to exhibit the traits that show what they want. Way before they have any peer group, before they can be advertised at etc etc.

Girls want to care for things, communicate, etc, and boys want to blow stuff up or build stuff. It's preprogrammed into our DNA.

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