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Thoughts on Bitcoin

blog.samaltman.com

31–40 of 213 posts

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#31
post #9
post #5

I'm going to buy a bitcoin after the bubble has passed. What do we think the real price is. Like $10 or $100? What's the projected bottom? I'm hoping for less than $10, because cheaper is better. The thought that I would never be able to afford an entire bitcoin has a negative psychological effect, which may be silly. What I like about alt-coins is how one can use that for games. Imagine making a game where a custom…

To be honest I think the bottom is going to be around $500. Pretty much everyone I know who is even the slightest bit interested in bitcoin is waiting for this crash to happen so they can jump in. Just a guess though.

Looks like the last time it traded below $500 was November 17th[1] - so everyone you know who is interested has only become interested in the past two weeks?

[1] http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg30ztgSzm1g10zm...

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#32

The following graph shows the estimated volume of transactions: https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume?... You see immediately from the graph that the growth in number of transactions is relatively slow, considering all the media attention, and certainly far, far slower than the increase in the exchange rate. Note that this graph is not the same as the number of "legitimate transactions" mentione…

The author's central point is still very misguided: "Specifically, watch legitimate transaction volume--I'd suggest only buying if it shows signs of seriously ramping up."

Markets are based on expectations about the future, which is tangentially related to present reality. Present reality is that many smart, well-funded people are working on merchant adoption.

By the time legitimate transaction volume ramps up the price will have baked it in months ahead of time.

Not saying today's price is unsustainable, but I would recommend buying as many bitcoins as you would bet on black at the roulette table during a weekend in Vegas. If you're not a betting person, get off HN and go read Reader's Digest or something.

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#33

I don't know why it is required that it is used in legitimate purchases. No one questions the value of gold, yet not many people use it to make purchases. I suspect bitcoins value will follow the same pattern as gold, once it is stable. When the world is full of uncertainty, it's value will rise. When things are steady, it's value will fall.

  > No one questions the value of gold, yet not many people
  > use it to make purchases.
Gold is purchased and used to make art, jewelry, electronics, medical devices, and so on in addition to being hoarded as an investment / currency reserve. Those products have real tangible value. Very few people are interested in buying bitcoin just to use the bitcoin address as artwork, for example. Tulip bulbs had more actual value. At its peak, one tulip bulb cost around €25,000 and WAS being used for legitimate purchases: milk, cheese, cows, wine, etc. Even after the price of tulip bulbs crashed, you could still at least plant them and grow flowers. If bitcoin reaches that price and crashes to next to nothing, what could you use your bitcoin for?

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#34

I think this is spot on. All sorts of people I rarely speak with have been coming out of the woodwork to ask about Bitcoin. These people are invariably regular folks that have heard about this thing that has been appreciating at an unbelievable clip. This is extremely alarming for me.

Same. I've tried to warn them about this whole mess (even if the value is appreciating I think it's at best a risky investment and at worst partaking in an immoral scheme).

This article reiterates 2 of my favorites points --

1. the lack of real-world transactions, coupled with

2. the fact that these transactions are usually done via 3rd party processor or immediate conversion back to USD. If vendors had faith in it as an actually currency, they wouldn't feel the need to do so. This is not true adoption, this is simply an attempt at expanding one's market by accepting a tradable item.

Glad to see some more sobering articles emerging as I've been wondering why no one has coherently written these things. Most of the negative BTC articles on HN are poorly written and used as a straw man.

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#35
From the article:

low transaction costs for worldwide commerce would still be great.

I'm late to the whole bitcoin phenomenon, but here is what I really like about crypto-currencies. My US credit union (not even a commercial bank) charges me 40 dollars for an international wire transfer to Canada, and the bank on the other end will charge me 15 dollars. If this were done in bitcoin or a similar currency? Nothing, as far as I can tell, if you do it through the right exchange. And that's how it should be.

I suspect that banks don't even know to be worried at this point.

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#36
I normally love SA's writing, but this opinion piece is really narrow minded and I think misses the point.

cs702 had a fantastic comment a few days ago in another thread [1]:

    Bitcoin befuddles experts who analyze it from a narrow perspective,
    because  it is not just a new medium of exchange or a new store of
    value: it is also a new kind of point-of-sale payment system (one
    that doesn't require payment processors), a new kind of global
    financial transfer system (one that doesn't require financial
    institutions), a new kind of time-stamping certification system
    (one that doesn't require notaries or county clerks), a new kind of
    contract-enforcing mechanism (one that doesn't require lawyers), etc.

    With rising global adoption, many new kinds of applications are likely
    to be created to take advantage of the Bitcoin network, the design of
    which even specifies a built-in script for defining and executing new
    types of transactions involving any arbitrary number of parties.

    In short, Bitcoin is a technology platform -- one that is benefiting
    from network effects.

    It may fail as "money" (in a narrow sense) and still succeed as a
    global platform.
Even from SA's narrow perspective, it's not clear why "legitimate transactions" is a requirement for success. As long as there is a large enough community of people who want to use it to transfer value for any reason, it'll continue to sustain itself.

The one takeaway he offers in closing is spot on though: "Just as it’d be stupid to convert all your dollars to bitcoin, it’d be stupid to not pay attention."

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6810839

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#37

My biggest issue with bitcoin is that it should be redeemable for something tangible other than $USD. The first virtual currency that addresses this and is directly convertible to watts or calories will be the currency to beat.

Huh, tangible like what? I can exchange bitcoin for EUR just fine. Or for dinner. Or bullion.

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#38

I've been watching bitcoin since $30, bought at $80, and sold last night. I think that Stefan Molyneux (or however you spell it) is right on when he says that bitcoin is "a revolutionary protocol for information synchronization." However, it is by no means unique, and as we've seen, anyone can start their own bitcoin-type cryptocurrency. Apparently, the Canadian government is working on their own, and I don't think i…

I just put a sell order in for a percentage of my bitcoins because I think that there will be a pull back, but with that in mind I have the following response:

Some of us don't want the help of a government. The revolutionary thing about Bitcoin is that it is a (nearly) zero trust method of transacting. The value is in the fact that there is no central bank to be afraid of. Most of the wealth my parents have lost in their savings was due to inflation and debt backed asset bubbles. Both of which are symptoms of a debt-prone central banking system. There might be arguments that these central banks stabilize the economy for the betterment of everyone, but that is irrelevant when it comes time to choose a currency. Do you want inflation, meddling, and regulation? Serious question. The uninformed should say "yes" and the informed might want to say "no".

As for whether or not people are right about Bitcoin being a bubble, I think that bitcoin has a highger likelihood of 20 year success than Twitter and a lower market capitalization. It's a bubble when the baby boomers get involved with their dumb money. When there are ETFs that get traded on the exchanges that are backed on Bitcoin. Then it can be a bubble. Right now, its just an inelastic supply curve and a couple million dollars.

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#39

My biggest issue with bitcoin is that it should be redeemable for something tangible other than $USD. The first virtual currency that addresses this and is directly convertible to watts or calories will be the currency to beat.

That could easily be accomplished by bitcoin using the "colored coins" proposal. All it needs is for an electric utility to issue colored coins that it's willing to redeem for watts.

Re: Thoughts on Bitcoin

#40
post #33

I don't know why it is required that it is used in legitimate purchases. No one questions the value of gold, yet not many people use it to make purchases. I suspect bitcoins value will follow the same pattern as gold, once it is stable. When the world is full of uncertainty, it's value will rise. When things are steady, it's value will fall.

> No one questions the value of gold, yet not many people > use it to make purchases. Gold is purchased and used to make art, jewelry, electronics, medical devices, and so on in addition to being hoarded as an investment / currency reserve. Those products have real tangible value. Very few people are interested in buying bitcoin just to use the bitcoin address as artwork, for example. Tulip bulbs had more actual valu…

Although this is true, gold's total value is much higher than could be supported by those uses alone.
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