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LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

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Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#31

Post by jmpe »

ars wrote: post #25

This doesn't make any sense. A high pressure sodium vapor lamp has an efficiency of around 150 lm/W. An LED has an efficiency of under 100 lm/W. Where is the energy savings? If anything an LED uses more energy, not less.

The hps operates at higher power and comes in models that scatter the light in all directions (so you need a reflector). The spectrum is constrained (as is for led) but you'll find it difficult to change it. All those lumens are in an unfavorable part of the spectrum. LED is much better at fooling our eyes, their spectrum can be tuned to sit close to the receptiveness maxima for our eyes.

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#32

Post by SwellJoe »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #22
abduhl wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most items installed on a transportation project must meet the standard specifications for the state which generally incorporates federal requirements as needed. Anything installed must be "per spec" and manufacturers or contractors installed items that are not per spec can be grounds for a refusal of payment or refusal of acceptance. Specifications compliance is solely the responsibility of the contractor (who gener…

So we'll never have any new lights?

Nope. No new technology of any sort is allowed in government ever. No smartphones or tablets, because they don't meet the specifications for a computer. No electric vehicles because they don't meet the existing specification for automobiles that run on gas or diesel. Internet will never meet the specifications for a telephone system being installed into a government office...obviously that'll never fly.

Give up on anything new. Right now.

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#33

Post by stkni »

Apparently the predicted cost benefit of doing this in Manchester (UK) will take 17 years to recoup[1]. If that's representative it doesn't seem hugely compelling for municipalities to switch at current energy prices. In the UK at least.

However I can see that it might well be disruptive for utility companies if those municipalities should decide to switch anyway(as per the article).

[1] http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchest...

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#34

Post by dingaling »

Aloha wrote: post #11

I call BS on this: "But in most cities around the country, the local electric distribution company provides overhead street lighting as a basic service at a flat monthly rate per light, which includes the light itself, maintenance, and electricity. Therein lies the rub—regulated utilities often have little incentive to invest in more efficient streetlights, which offer a reliable, consistent, and often lucrative reve…

It's also a statement only applicable to the USA.

In the UK the Roads Service ( NI ) or Highways Agency are responsible for the emplacement and maintenance of lighting. So they'd be quite grateful for any power saving, as the electricity distributors charge them for actual usage.

Another solution would be to eliminate most street lighting, but that's a rather touchy subject.

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#35

Post by sudomal »

They have been installing LED street lights in the UK for a while now. The LED supplier approaches a council, the council agrees to pay the supplier the difference between their normal and new lighting bill for X years. The supplier gives them the relatively expensive LED lamps (which talk to each other wirelessly) and management system. The council installs them. Supplier makes money from the price difference.

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#36

Post by csmuk »

sudomal wrote: post #35

They have been installing LED street lights in the UK for a while now. The LED supplier approaches a council, the council agrees to pay the supplier the difference between their normal and new lighting bill for X years. The supplier gives them the relatively expensive LED lamps (which talk to each other wirelessly) and management system. The council installs them. Supplier makes money from the price difference.

And they're horrible. They just put them in down my road and it's like prison searchlights compared to the old lighting.

To add insult to injury they put CCTV cameras on every alternate lamp as well.

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#37

Post by Unosolo »

sprokolopolis wrote: post #23

My neighborhood in Los Angeles recently switched over to LED. I am happy that they are trying to save money/energy, but having a bright white light outside my window has been quite obnoxious. The older lights were dimmer with a more natural light color.

Contemporary LED lighting does seem much harsher with very sharp shadows and much less pleasant to the eye than older lights. I believe that lighting need to be assessed on it's overall merits, not just based on brightness / cost ratio.

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#38

Post by andyjohnson0 »

ars wrote: post #25

This doesn't make any sense. A high pressure sodium vapor lamp has an efficiency of around 150 lm/W. An LED has an efficiency of under 100 lm/W. Where is the energy savings? If anything an LED uses more energy, not less.

LED lights have much longer lifespans: 50k to 100k hours, compared to ~30K hours for high pressure sodium lamps [1]. Reduced labour and parts costs could account for the decision.

Also, the referenced document shows LED lights as emitting 70 - 150 lm/W, so power consumption may be better than you think.

[1] http://www.grahlighting.eu/en/street-lighting-technology-com...

Re: LED street lighting the newest challenge to old utility business models

#40

Post by Sanddancer »

ars wrote: post #25

This doesn't make any sense. A high pressure sodium vapor lamp has an efficiency of around 150 lm/W. An LED has an efficiency of under 100 lm/W. Where is the energy savings? If anything an LED uses more energy, not less.

The psychology of light is much more complicated than just number of lumens being thrown about. Because HPS lamps throw light in pretty narrowly defined bands, people feel less comfortable, and aren't able to notice things as well compared to light that is lower wattage, but more full spectrum ( http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/researchAreas/pdf/GrotonFinalReport.p... ). Like a lot of things, quality of light counts more than quantity.
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