Hordes Of Novices • Hacker News Board

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#31

Post by edw519 » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:19 PM UTC

This discussion reminds me of Joel Spolsky's "Hitting the High Notes":

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html

Instead of debating with every other PHB, PM/BA, or clueless customer, I have them read this first. It's fundamental for understanding how to use high achievers to get things done.

(Love this part: "Five Antonio Salieris won't produce Mozart's Requiem. Ever. Not if they work for 100 years.")

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#32

Post by ecopoesis » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:22 PM UTC

herge wrote: post #27

normloman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't let them program air traffic control software.

Or medical imaging devices.

Or let them handle website security

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#33

Post by al2o3cr » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:26 PM UTC

A question not asked by the piece: is what we do really "heart transplants" and Shakespearean plays? Sure, that surgeon can do the transplant like nobody else and ol' Bill can write a play like nobody else, but what if all the client actually needed was a bandaid or a quip for a greeting card?

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#34

Post by bjornsing » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:32 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #24

If one doctor can transplant a heart in ten hours, can ten nurses transplant that heart in one hour? Can a hundred nursing assistants transplant that heart in six minutes? Can six hundred hospital receptionists transplant that heart in one minute? The real question is: Could the doctor do the transplant without any nurses? Could the nurses help the doctor without the receptionists?

I agree very much. All honest work is honorable work and it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

But I also think the organizational distinction between receptionists, nurses and doctors is helpful in making a hospital function. I must admit I sometimes feel that missing in the software industry.

Given time we tend to organize into functional units where people know who's good at what and how to contribute, but it's sort of like if everybody was hired into a hospital with the same job description and then had to informally hash out who should play doctor and who should be the receptionist...

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#35

Post by robin2 » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:33 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #24

If one doctor can transplant a heart in ten hours, can ten nurses transplant that heart in one hour? Can a hundred nursing assistants transplant that heart in six minutes? Can six hundred hospital receptionists transplant that heart in one minute? The real question is: Could the doctor do the transplant without any nurses? Could the nurses help the doctor without the receptionists?

If I wanted to be pedantic I'd say that you'd really want a heart transplant done by a surgeon, not a doctor...

That said, I think the real questions is: who is Robert Martin, self-described uber-hacker, that his opinions should be taken so seriously? What has he written?

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#36

Post by lmm » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:35 PM UTC

Have you ever worked at a job where a guy who learned to program 20 years ago has to sign off on everything you do? I did, and it was awful. I've also worked at a place that hired nothing but fresh graduates, and that... actually turned out pretty well. There were cases where they wrote more code when they needed to, or used an unsafe construct when there was a better alternative... but they were willing to reason about things, to experiment, rather than just "this is how we do it". I'll take an untrained grad over someone who rigidly follows procedures any day.

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#37

Post by Profpatsch » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:41 PM UTC

robin2 wrote: post #35

noonespecial wrote: post #24

If one doctor can transplant a heart in ten hours, can ten nurses transplant that heart in one hour? Can a hundred nursing assistants transplant that heart in six minutes? Can six hundred hospital receptionists transplant that heart in one minute? The real question is: Could the doctor do the transplant without any nurses? Could the nurses help the doctor without the receptionists?

If I wanted to be pedantic I'd say that you'd really want a heart transplant done by a surgeon, not a doctor... That said, I think the real questions is: who is Robert Martin, self-described uber-hacker, that his opinions should be taken so seriously? What has he written?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cecil_Martin

He’s the head of the agile movement.

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#38

Post by websitescenes » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:42 PM UTC

This article is ridiculous. Someone needs to program the software obviously.

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#39

Post by Profpatsch » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:42 PM UTC

ecopoesis wrote: post #32

herge wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or medical imaging devices.

Or let them handle website security

Holy crap.

Or write Sony’s user management. Or Adobe’s. Or …

Re: Hordes Of Novices

#40

Post by chiph » Wed, Nov 20, 2013, 3:43 PM UTC

ecopoesis wrote: post #32

herge wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or medical imaging devices.

Or let them handle website security

Or anything related to large amounts of money