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Why GitHub is not your CV

blog.jcoglan.com

31–40 of 135 posts

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#31

I disagree with this article completely. I'm a woman and a software developer and I think my Github is very valuable as a portfolio to me. Before I used Github, if I wanted some of my code to get shown off, I would make a blog post about it and call out specific chunks while linking to a ZIP of the whole thing. If a potential employer wanted to see samples of my code, they'd have to find my blog and dig through its a…

You either missed the point, or do not think it's a problem.

> determine if a candidate cares enough to code on their own

Which he is arguing that you are not a bad developer for doing other things outside of work. The vast majority of people need to not code to regenerate.

I can use myself as anecdotal evidence: I'm the goto guy when it's particular difficult to solve a bug, when it's a new framework, or when the teams are unsure how to solve a problem. I love coding, I constantly get compliments for my code and solutions. I do rarely code outside of my work. I used to before I got a "real" job after my degree, but now I (almost) only code at work. I usually think about solutions and architectures outside of work though, and I write a lot of pseudo code on paper if I get an idea for an algorithm - but I do not make binaries or contribute to OOS or a public Github repository. I have a spouse, children, friends, and hobbies that simply doesn't get as much of my time as they deserve.

I would never pass the bar at a startup that's looking for the typical startup stereotype developer. I'm 100% certain that I make more business sense to hire than all of your average workoholic startup developer, but I would never be considered. I have seen so many developers with great personality and glowing Github repo fail so miserably because they have poor work ethics and are unable to do "the boring stuff" that needs to be done in a business.

I can make a sensible plan, estimates that aren't completely bonkers, and I can tell when we're no longer on track to meet the deadline the same week it starts to slip. If I make a promise I keep it, or let you know that I'm unable to. I can also work completely agile, and not some "agile-but" that is so prevalent in the industry. In short there is soooo much that you need to consider when hiring. Screening based on a Github account is excluding developers that would be just the guy/gal you're looking for.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Also, I'd challenge you to find where the arti…

> The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Actually, Ashe has that on the Hire Me Page.…

> I understand this is a fact, but how this can be used against Github as a resumé or against OSS on your free time, I have a hard time seeing that. It comes off as incredibly stupid.

I really don't think anyone is saying not to do OSS on your free time. That there is a greater lack of diversity in OSS than in software engineering as a profession suggests that whatever it is that keeps minorities out of software engineering might be amplified in the OSS community, but it is not proof of this.

As for being an argument against using GitHub for hiring decisions, I'd pose you a scenario...two recent college grads are looking for their first job. One had parents who could pay for college, so in between rounds of beer pong and slacking off from class, this student found time to write a handful of OSS libraries and posted them to GitHub. The other was raised by a single parent in poverty, and is now working two part time jobs to fund their education. Between work, this person studies hard, does well in class, but has no time left to work on any open source side projects.

Which of these two students will be the better asset for your startup? Which of these two students will reply to your job post that says "don't send us a resumé, just link us to your GitHub profile"? Statistically speaking, which of these two students is more likely to be a racial/ethnic minority?

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#34

Unless you have your CV on github..

Yes, all the complaints about how you can't tell a story with your github profile seems to completely ignore gh-pages, a phenomenal service that does let you tell a story. Maybe your github profile isn't a good portfolio by default, but it's an excellent service for creating your portfolio. On top of that, even a poor github profile provides more signal than most CVs I've read.

The point (imho) isn't that literally nothing on github can be a good hiring indicator. It's that people are treating github as if, by itself, it is an adequate way to assess candidates and decide who to interview. Maybe if you make a page like you're suggesting, then you can link to that page, but then github is more or less just a host.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#35

Beatniks. That's what we'll get. The Beats were a genuine movement of talented, hard working literary types. They were hip. They were cool. They were who everyone wanted to be, so people started emulating their dress, their mannerisms, their speach. But they were not driven by the same passion. Their motivation was different. Ginsberg said of the Beatniks: "If beatniks and not illuminated Beat poets overrun this coun…

This is always what happens, and it's usually a good thing.

The people ahead of the curve have to be more motivated, but if we get more people sharing, more eyes to find and fix bugs, more people from other walks of life that understand a bit more of the hacker mentality, more acceptance of sharing code as a normal part of life, then the world is a better place.

Yes, it's a shame that not everyone who plays the piano has the dedication and vision of Rachmaninov, or that everyone who paints is Picasso, but I think the world is a better place for amateurs and dilettantes. Sure, we'd perhaps have better art if it were restricted to those who must, but we have a better society because those who are moderately interested can.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Also, I'd challenge you to find where the arti…

As for the white, male bias...not sure what to tell you. It's real. The statistics don't lie. I'm glad that you have had success as a non-white member of the LGBT community, but as the saying goes: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". The thing is, something can be both a filter against 'underrepresented groups' AND a valid criterion for hiring. Requiring a CS degree probably biases in favor of white and asian mal…

The point is, the lack of diversity in the Open Source community is greater than the lack of diversity in CS education programs. You'd be less likely to hire a black female if you said "send us your GitHub profile" than if you said "show me your CS degree".

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#37

> the demographic make-up of open source contributors is even more skewed toward white men than the software industry is, which is saying something What? > You just get what other people think is useful. Aside from which, GitHub displays a lot of useless stats about how many followers you have, and some completely psychologically manipulative stats about how often you commit and how many days it is since you had a da…

What does it say? That it's probably not a good measure of skill in any sense worth measuring, unless you think that 98.5% of the programmers worth hiring are men.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all the complaints about how you can't tell a story with your github profile seems to completely ignore gh-pages, a phenomenal service that does let you tell a story. Maybe your github profile isn't a good portfolio by default, but it's an excellent service for creating your portfolio. On top of that, even a poor github profile provides more signal than most CVs I've read.

The point (imho) isn't that literally nothing on github can be a good hiring indicator. It's that people are treating github as if, by itself, it is an adequate way to assess candidates and decide who to interview. Maybe if you make a page like you're suggesting, then you can link to that page, but then github is more or less just a host.

Well, I can certainly accept that it's possible to overweight github as a hiring indicator, however that's not been my experience from either side of the interview, so I strongly suspect that if there's an optimum amount of attention to pay to services like github, most recruitment programs are on the 'too little' side rather than the 'too much'.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#39

Beatniks. That's what we'll get. The Beats were a genuine movement of talented, hard working literary types. They were hip. They were cool. They were who everyone wanted to be, so people started emulating their dress, their mannerisms, their speach. But they were not driven by the same passion. Their motivation was different. Ginsberg said of the Beatniks: "If beatniks and not illuminated Beat poets overrun this coun…

This is always what happens, and it's usually a good thing. The people ahead of the curve have to be more motivated, but if we get more people sharing, more eyes to find and fix bugs, more people from other walks of life that understand a bit more of the hacker mentality, more acceptance of sharing code as a normal part of life, then the world is a better place. Yes, it's a shame that not everyone who plays the piano…

The nice thing about programming: You don't have to perform in the 99.9 percentile (like Picasso) to make something people want.

Re: Why GitHub is not your CV

#40
OSS/GitHub is what let me crack into the industry without having a CS degree or particularly good contacts. I started learning to code a year or two ago, then started contributing to open source and now I have a pretty solid track record on interesting projects that's helped me get some interest and interviews. Not sure how I could have done that otherwise...
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