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Stop Freelancing

robertnealan.com

31–40 of 126 posts

Re: Stop Freelancing

#31
Cheating a bit since I didn't read the article, but having been in and out of that world for a number of years, there were always certain types of clients who didn't want to hire a company--they only wanted to deal with individuals, for reasons stated or unstated.

Re: Stop Freelancing

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine he just set up an LLC or something to that effect, and made his site look more professional, with a logo on it. I can't imagine it's that difficult. People do it all the time for all sorts of personal businesses. I haven't looked into it in-depth as I'm not at that stage yet, but I eventually plan to do the same thing -- although I hope to scale freelancing into a much bigger business if at all possible

Here you can register/setup an LLC in about 10 minutes online for around $300.

Looks like you forgot your link. Mind updating your comment?

Re: Stop Freelancing

#33
This feels very culture-specific.

Purely anecdotally, I started freelancing a few months ago, and my experiences are very different. I live in the Netherlands. Here, relatively few programmers decide to freelance, and most who do clearly present themselves as a one-man company, not just as "a guy". It's also impractical to freelance without being registered as a business, so maybe the registration process helps some starting freelancers "flip the switch".

Also, I've never experienced anything like pity, as the OP describes. Much rather, people appreciate that I dare taking the comparatively high risk involved (I don't think it's a high risk at all, but many people used to a European-style safe job contract feel differently).

Re: Stop Freelancing

#34
post #12

This seems like a great idea, one that I've been tossing around in my head for a while now. To the skeptics (of which HN has in droves), has anybody ever gone in the reverse direction, ie, from having their own client-funded business to being "freelance"?

I've known people do that when their small business was sold to a larger one, and they did not want to stay at the larger company for longer than the hand-over period. Though they have eventually grown back to having a new small business with employees, so haven't stayed as singleton freelancer so they might not count for what you are asking.

Re: Stop Freelancing

#35

Interesting. I've been toying around with this idea for a while, but inexperience with starting a company is prohibitive enough to prevent action. How is your current freelance shell company marketed? I'd love to see what that website looks like, and how you advertise it differently.

I have two websites, one for my "freelance profile" (dave78.com) and one for my "business" (redskyforge.com). The thing is, I hardly ever send anyone my "business" site, because I don't think it sells me/my business as well as the freelance site. I would also love to see other peoples' sites!

Re: Stop Freelancing

#36
huh. Interesting.

The thing is? I have no trouble at all getting freelancing or "contract" work where I'm paid by the hour, and where I'm expected to pretend like I want to be a full time employee.

I mean, other than the pretending, I have no objections; usually the work is easy and the pay is good.

The thing is, I like mercenary work, and I'm good at it (Most of the gigs I've gotten, well, they seem to be looking for someone who wants full-time work but can't get it without contracting for a while first. Generally speaking? I am better than most people who can't get full-time work, and way better than most people who can't get full-time work, but who can pass the contracting interview process.)

I have a business (and a business licence, and a corporation, and employees, and health +workers compensation insurance, and actually rather more revenue from hosting/VPS customers than I could reasonably expect to make from consulting) - but I still don't have whatever it takes to get larger or more monied companies to hire me as a company, rather than as a freelancer.

It's... odd, 'cause generally speaking? I don't hire people who aren't better than me. If you can hire my company, rather than me? even if you are paying rather more, you are getting a significantly better product.

Now, you could say, the primary difference is that when freelancing, often I use a body shop. Which could be the case; but more than once, I've had a manager call me back after I've left and negotiate a new deal (that he then takes to the body shop) so I guess I'm a little unclear on what value the body shop is bringing the client, so I have no idea how to go about replacing them for my corporation. (the body shop is bringing me value in the form of giving me access to clients who won't do business with my small company.)

Edit: note, I /can/ get gigs without a body shop, and flat-rate gigs, too... but... the people I can sell to directly? Generally speaking, they have... much smaller budgets. To the point where I end up making less money. A whole lot less money.

So, that's my problem; it seems that the body shops are only set up to deal with hourly work, and it seems that I lack something that companies with money need in order to do business.

I have been called unprofessional, and eh, I have a hard time arguing... but like I said, I do just fine; generally far above expectations when going through a body shop, and I /do/ have an infrastructure for outsourcing more of the professional bullshit.

To be clear, I'm not saying the body shop isn't bringing value to the customer... just that I don't know what that value is.

Re: Stop Freelancing

#37

This feels very culture-specific. Purely anecdotally, I started freelancing a few months ago, and my experiences are very different. I live in the Netherlands. Here, relatively few programmers decide to freelance, and most who do clearly present themselves as a one-man company, not just as "a guy". It's also impractical to freelance without being registered as a business, so maybe the registration process helps some…

Definitely culture-specific. Freelancers are common in New Zealand, sometimes as sole traders, sometimes as one-person companies (the difference is pretty marginal, since setting up and maintaining a company in New Zealand is relatively cheap). I did it for a little under a decade before deciding I was a shitty employer for myself.

Re: Stop Freelancing

#38
In my case, it really worked the opposite way. When I was an 'agency', I barely had any clients because they didn't feel personal. When I used my name, they were more comfortable and were able to relate more, thus feeling more inclined to hire.

Re: Stop Freelancing

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine he just set up an LLC or something to that effect, and made his site look more professional, with a logo on it. I can't imagine it's that difficult. People do it all the time for all sorts of personal businesses. I haven't looked into it in-depth as I'm not at that stage yet, but I eventually plan to do the same thing -- although I hope to scale freelancing into a much bigger business if at all possible

Yes, there's a lot of information out there regarding this, but it's not too terribly expensive to file for an LLC. When the business is actually just you, it's basically invisible in regards to your tax situation. Just open a separate bank account under the LLC's EIN so you don't have to spend as much time tracking business income and expenses when you want the tax benefit of those business expenses.

>> When the business is actually just you, it's basically invisible in regards to your tax situation.

Not true. In the U.S. if you create an LLC or S-corp you can pay yourself a salary and also pay yourself dividends (sometimes called distributions). Both salary and dividends are subject to regular income taxes, but only the salary is subject to payroll taxes.

The justification goes like this: if you were paying an employee, you'd pay them a fair salary and then take some extra for yourself as the owner. The owner's payment isn't technically a salary so you don't need to pay payroll taxes on it.

Lots of single-person companies play games with salary and dividends to try to drive their payroll taxes as low as possible. The IRS can crack down on those owners that don't pay themselves a fair salary in an attempt to evade taxes.

Re: Stop Freelancing

#40
post #12

This seems like a great idea, one that I've been tossing around in my head for a while now. To the skeptics (of which HN has in droves), has anybody ever gone in the reverse direction, ie, from having their own client-funded business to being "freelance"?

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