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Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

wikileaks.org

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Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#31

Post by freehunter »

kevando wrote: post #20
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

What if I told you your government knows what you masterbate to?

The end game is, if they couldn't keep things like this secret, people would demand they stop storing this information in the first place.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#32

Post by Eye_of_Mordor »

retube wrote: post #11
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

That is a very naive and idealistic position. Governments often and rightly have genuine reasons for keeping things secret - as do other institutions, businesses and indeed individual people.

Unfortunately governments are obliged to reveal their 'secrets' despite any misgivings, since they are acting on our behalf. They know this, they don't like this and they have utterly failed us.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#33

Post by danielweber »

ssmoot wrote: post #27
retube wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very naive and idealistic position. Governments often and rightly have genuine reasons for keeping things secret - as do other institutions, businesses and indeed individual people.

He/She is clearly referring to Whistle Blowers. All the ridiculous, obtuse comments just to feel superior. If you can't attack the actual message, then impeach the character? Grow up.

"governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret"

I assume he meant what he said.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#34

Post by mcphilip »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

It's not quite so simple as considering all leaks of government information heroic. For instance, would it have been heroic to leak news that U.S. code breakers had cracked enemy codes in WW2?

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#35

Post by erre »

scarmig wrote: post #19
zxcdw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

Negotiations. When you go to a new job and they tell you "How much do you make at your current position? Tell us, you have nothing to hide." what do you do?

Going on a tangent here, if they also assume this stance - meaning, they'll tell you everyone else's salaries - it can be quite interesting.

I can't quite find where I first saw this, but googling a bit brings up a few interesting example. For instance, http://99u.com/articles/15527/the-age-of-salary-transparency

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#36

Post by sgustard »

scarmig wrote: post #19
zxcdw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

Negotiations. When you go to a new job and they tell you "How much do you make at your current position? Tell us, you have nothing to hide." what do you do?

You say, tell me how much all your current employees make. Don't negotiate with someone who holds all the cards.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#37

Post by danielweber »

bzmwillemsen wrote: post #21
zxcdw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apart from "obvious" national security in the name of TERRORISM [1], what are such reasons? [1]: http://www.gwern.net/Terrorism%20is%20not%20about%20Terror

With respect to government contracts: It would really hurt a company if their detail pricing scheme was released, as a competitor could easily undercut if they had access to that information. With respect to court documents: It could result is someone getting hurt or a mis-trial due to outside influences (ie. Rob Ford video) There are obviously many reasons...

Government contracts are usually public information already. More than once I've been at a company that sold something to a government agency, and the agency first had to publish what exactly they were buying and give someone else the ability to put in a better bid.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#38

Post by CWuestefeld »

ihsw wrote: post #13
pvnick wrote: post #10

This revelation proves Wikileaks is stil alive and relevant. I hope they see a renewed jolt of donations and interest. This is the organization of heroes that helped get Snowden to safety. Also, I'm getting sick and tired of our "leaders" attempting to legislate free speech and intellectual property in secret through anti-democratic means. It's disgusting. Edit: second paragraph

The problem with these kinds of things is that the document might be watermarked to obviate who leaked it. It follows the same vein as "spying on allies" which -- until recently -- was tin-foil-hat conspiracy territory. The political fallout will not be minimal, and it will not be kept secret.

Sorry to be pedantic here, but I don't think that "obviate" is at all what you meant here. Judging from the context, it seems you believe the definition is "to make obvious", but it actually has nothing to do with that.

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#39

Post by jewbacca »

nikcub wrote: post #28
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

> governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That isn't the goal, not for privacy advocates nor for Wikileaks or Julian Assange, who said: "The goal is justice, the method is transparency. It's important not to confuse the goal and the method." Advocates of individual privacy rely on the government, as a service provider, to keep secrets in order to protect the rights of individuals.

I find it amazing how often supposedly substantive discussions about Wikileaks and Julian Assange go on without any explicit mention or acknowledgment of what I've always considered his central thesis:

----

"The non linear effects of leaks on unjust systems of governance

[...]

The more secretive or unjust an organization is, the more leaks induce fear and paranoia in its leadership and planning coterie. This must result in minimization of efficient internal communications mechanisms (an increase in cognitive "secrecy tax") and consequent system-wide cognitive decline resulting in decreased ability to hold onto power as the environment demands adaption."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071020051936id_/http://iq.org#T...

http://cryptome.org/0002/ja-conspiracies.pdf

Re: Secret Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

#40

Post by Shivetya »

AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #6

I really, really hope the culture of leaking information becomes so strong that governments will become incapable of keeping anything a secret. That would give me some hope for the future. Anyone that leaks information is a fucking hero. Edit: Stop attacking me personally. I'm talking about the government's privacy here, not mine (nor anyone else's). I actually think my privacy will improve if this becomes a reality.

it will only work in governments where fear of terminal retribution is minimal. Put another way, some governments have no qualms about keeping secrets through fear. There are numerous examples where they round up whole families and disappear them
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