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What's new in Unity 4.3

unity3d.com

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Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#31
post #28
post #2

I'd be more happy if Unity goes toward being more programmer-friendly. Fully code-only projects support, no need to waste a lot of time tinkering in that complex UI, etc...

It's targeted at scripters not professional programmers though. I think in their paradigm professional programmers are focused on creating components for the store and everyone else (level designers, gameplay scripters etc.) just consume components along with some scripting.

Professional game developers are exactly the people that would use a product like Unity, Unreal, CryTek's stuff, etc.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#32
post #2

I'd be more happy if Unity goes toward being more programmer-friendly. Fully code-only projects support, no need to waste a lot of time tinkering in that complex UI, etc...

>> I'd be more happy if Unity goes toward being more programmer-friendly. Fully code-only projects support, no need to waste a lot of time tinkering in that complex UI, etc...

I guess you are not really the target audience for Unity if full code-only projects are what you are after. I can't really disagree with you though. I've never used Unity, but I watched the 2D feature video and while I have to see the tooling looks absolutely fantastic, very flexible and powerful, I couldn't shake the feeling that I'd be much more comfortable just doing all that stuff using a code-only IDE and good sprite/animation libraries. There's just so many buttons, sliders, menu's, dialogs and other thingamajigs in that user interface :-S. And then somewhere deep down there you also still have your code tied to all of it. I have to say the video was confusing as anything to me.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#33
post #31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's targeted at scripters not professional programmers though. I think in their paradigm professional programmers are focused on creating components for the store and everyone else (level designers, gameplay scripters etc.) just consume components along with some scripting.

Professional game developers are exactly the people that would use a product like Unity, Unreal, CryTek's stuff, etc.

Sorry, I meant programmers rather than game developers in general. Of course a game developer such as 3d animator will prefer Unity.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#34
post #2

I'd be more happy if Unity goes toward being more programmer-friendly. Fully code-only projects support, no need to waste a lot of time tinkering in that complex UI, etc...

Source: me. I don't work for Unity. Software engineer and use Unity for a lot of 'traditional development'.

You'd be surprised... there isn't a ton of documentation about it, but most of the engine is pretty well exposed for programmers.

You can punch into the rendering pipeline (down to immediate OpenGL mode if you need to), the compilation pipeline (recompiling on the fly or setting up a custom preprocessor), hook into the assemblies (for, say, an interactive interpreter run in the game), and hook into native binaries in unmanaged code. Naturally you can use any language that can compile into IL, so, you don't even have to use C# or Boo if you don't like it (though you'll want to take a look at Boo... UnityScript interpreter was written in it for a reason! yay, LISP MACROS with dynamic recompilation and loading!)

The editor will, in turn, handle a lot of things for you that are a waste of time to do normally, like visualizing things without having the game running (tweak a shader on the fly), handle all of the recompiling for you in the background, dyanmically load and unload resource files, let you easily browse the scene graph, let you write custom editors (for example, I wrote a converter to convert files of different types so that it happens when those files are added to your resources, instead of converting them on the fly at run-time or with some external half-assed console script), etc. Naturally, you can use your own editor if you're more comfortable (for example, I use Emacs and git and the mono profiler and debugger, rather than Unity and Unity Source Server and Monodevelop, and it works just fine, and I don't spend much time at all in the actual Unity Editor)

And the library itself has all kinds of things that you'd expect to make your life easy: screen graph manipulation, transforms and other 3D math, physics basics like raycasts and bounding box intersections, input handling, camera manipulations, sound and audio handling, event handlers and hooks on all kinds of stuff, color management, network handling and resource streaming, etc.

The tool also comes with a number of pre-written scripts (plus store, of course) to help you out with things you really should never have to re-invent and that a programmer probably doesn't even want to be bothered with, like a first-person or third person controller (complete with physics, camera work, input control and movement, etc.). Or you could go to the Store and pick up, say, a Mini-Map tool for $30 and have it working in about 5 minutes, which, to me, is very programmer friendly (who wants to spend their time reinventing a mini-map?!).

On top of that, your game will be almost entirely cross-platform automatically across a wide array of devices, AND will have native code for those devices for performance-heavy sections. You don't have to waste much time tracking down errors on all kinds of different platforms, which is also very programmer-friendly.

Couple problems: the docs aren't as good as they could be, the Mono version is still a ways back (~2.10ish), compute shaders aren't built-in to OSX yet (though you could do this yourself if you really wanted to), the community is geared around "scripting and drag/drop/click" so getting detailed assistance for very technical matters is sometimes difficult, etc.

All in all though, it's pretty amazing. Now, it will take you awhile to learn all that, to find out where everything is exposed, what you need to hook into, etc., but, once you do, it is actually very programmer friendly.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#36
Unity really desperately needs a Mono upgrade, as their version is years old. Unfortunately it seems to be a licensing issue with Xamarin, because of LGPL constraints on mobile platforms.

It's quite frustrating to work with C# without all the features of the last few versions, particularly if you want to use third party libraries.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#37
post #13
post #2

I'd be more happy if Unity goes toward being more programmer-friendly. Fully code-only projects support, no need to waste a lot of time tinkering in that complex UI, etc...

For 2D, Futile may be almost exactly what you're looking for https://github.com/MattRix/Futile

Yep, Futile is great. It's not quite as simple or flexible as a pure 2D engine (like PyGame/SDL), but it lets you make 2D games while taking advantage of Unity's cross-platform engine, GPU acceleration, and any other features you layer on top of it.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#38
post #2

I'd be more happy if Unity goes toward being more programmer-friendly. Fully code-only projects support, no need to waste a lot of time tinkering in that complex UI, etc...

They support all of that. At my last job, we made a huge 3d facebook game written entirely in c#. We compiled independent libraries, copied them into Assets/Plugins and ran the game using the UI. Everything was procedurally generated because, back then, we had some serious issues with missing texture references. The best part is, because compiling c# libraries has nothing to do with Unity (other than including the Unity libs), it can be done using a variety of methods and IDEs.

We started the project without knowing if the compile to flash target would be done when we needed it, so we hedged our bets and kept unity as separate from the game code as possible.

The downside is step through debugging can only be done with UnityVS or MonoDevelop and you don't get the flexibility of using "that complex UI", which I rather enjoyed using as a REPL. Oh, going from code change to compiled to seeing the game on the screen was sloooooooow.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#39
post #25
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which is ironic as it's Mono...

Mono has a good cross-platform GUI library? IDE is mostly very rich GUI I guess.

Monodevelop was primarily developed on Linux, so this is bit ironic indeed.

May be it is because 3D/2D modeling aspects of the IDE, not really because of Coding aspects.

Re: What's new in Unity 4.3

#40
post #36

Unity really desperately needs a Mono upgrade, as their version is years old. Unfortunately it seems to be a licensing issue with Xamarin, because of LGPL constraints on mobile platforms. It's quite frustrating to work with C# without all the features of the last few versions, particularly if you want to use third party libraries.

Agreed. It's starting to become a bit of an issue, particularly, like you said, with third party libraries.

It's one thing if you're a major version behind (unfortunate, but manageable), but 2.0 was 5 years ago. That's not a major version, that's practically an entire generation.

Also, lack of compute shader support for anything other than Windows and DX11 is a bit of a drag. Compute shaders are really the future of development and it's a bit of a pain not to be able to use them without going through a number of hurdles. This should be fixed eventually though, I'd imagine.

Hopefully they figure out a better way to handle all their platforms equally, at least for development purposes. Being held back on the desktop just because Unity can deploy to mobile is, again, a bit of a drag. I'd rather have the option.

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