Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 168 posts

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#31

Post by aelaguiz »

I see problems like this as "points-in-time". There will eventually be a technology based solution to these sorts of things. Early warning systems, collision detection, even just pervasiveness of go-pro cameras as the price point brings it into "standard equipment" territory (thus allowing distinction between negligence and accident).

That doesn't help people who are currently being run over. I ride a motorcycle occasionally and I know that I'm accepting a significantly higher chance of injury or death by riding it. I would love to improve those odds but I don't look to the criminal justice system for it.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#32

Post by briandh »

rcthompson wrote: post #21
tsotha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or society has de facto decided there's no point in sending someone to jail for a legitimate accident.

So you're saying that 100% of collisions between cars and bikes are either the cyclist's fault or "legitimate accidents", and 0% are the motorist's fault?

He just said "accidents". He didn't say who was at fault.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#33

Post by 001sky »

ck2 wrote: post #3

The US has always had a horrible "you are on your own mentality". I mean, over a hundred kids have been killed by gun rampages in schools over the past several years and nothing has changed. Oh wait, no MORE guns have been made legal and available, not less. So basically the American public becomes trained to be desensitized to deaths, cyclists, schoolkids, drunk driving, etc.

You seem to forget that kids are tossed out of schools in the US for playing with toy guns. You can get thrown out for making your food look like a gun.

On the other hand, many of these mass killers are? Kids. The same kids who are never taught how to handle themselves around potential danger or to manage risk and stress.

So, we get a bunch of kids who sit at home a rather playing with their pop-tarts as toy guns, play "FIRST PERSON SHOOTER" video games. Cause why? That's a good way for them to learn how to safely handle firearms?

And we wonder.

http://distractify.com/news/how-america-is-turning-kids-into...

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#34

Post by CamperBob2 »

dmm wrote: post #29
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

I see cars run stop signs and red lights all the time. I see cars speed everywhere, including neighborhoods with poor visibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

I think I was... what? 4? 5? ... when my parents explained that your reasoning is invalid.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#35

Post by kika »

dmm wrote: post #29
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

I see cars run stop signs and red lights all the time. I see cars speed everywhere, including neighborhoods with poor visibility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism

I see them too. I also see them got ticketed heavily and some even lost the privilege to drive. But I can't say that vast majority of cars run stop signs.

Your link is not relevant, sorry.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#36

Post by CaveTech »

busterarm wrote: post #20
kika wrote: post #17

No, it is not. But it is also not OK to prevent cyclists to kill themselves by car. I've witnessed an accident recently when the car in front of me hit a cyclist. He was: a) riding at night without lights b) running red light c) against the traffic d) without a helmet I'd say this guy (Stanford student, which IMHO implies some intellect) could serve as an encyclopedic definition of our Bay Area cyclist. Cyclists who…

scratch off point d. Helmets don't really do anything to protect you unless you practically fall off your bike standing still. I've seen brains on the street from at least two low-speed bike accidents where the cyclist was wearing a helmet. Also, it's not that all cyclists are disobeying the law. Those are just the ones you choose to see. Drivers and pedestrians alike just aren't looking. I always obey traffic laws o…

This summer I was hit by a truck pulling a wide trailer. The truck overpassed me, but the driver neglected the fact that his trailer was about a foot wider than his truck. It smashed me from behind and laid me out on the pavement. I was lucky enough to not fall under the trailer, but still smashed hard onto the road and nearby sidewalk. My helmet, without a doubt, saved me from a serious head injury. I walked away with some extensive road rash and a minor concussion.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#37

Post by rgrieselhuber »

The author makes all of the relevant points. When I first moved to SV, I bought a nice bike and rode it around for awhile. Then I started to notice the utter lack of attention to cyclists, even those such as myself who rode with a helmet and obeyed all of the traffic laws. You're just invisible.

Now in SF, I see the same problem with drivers but I also see cyclists acting generally like assholes, ignoring traffic laws and yelling at pedestrians to get out of the way as they run red lights. That sort of behavior costs cyclists, collectively, a lot of empathy points even if most individuals don't behave that way.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#38

Post by nostromo »

This article is a string of anecdotes presented as a trend. Where's the hard data?

In any case, the truth is, accidents do happen. What would throwing the teenager in the article (who was in an accident with a cyclist) in jail accomplish? Should getting in an accident be a life-ending event?

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#39

Post by scarmig »

tsotha wrote: post #12

>So here’s my proposal: Every time you get on a bike, from this moment forward, obey the letter of the law in every traffic exchange everywhere... Hahahahaha. I see a flaw in this plan. I don't see why the author views a lack of criminal charges as evidence of some kind of travesty of justice. If a cyclist gets run down by someone who didn't see him, that's an accident, not a crime.

Vehicular manslaughter is a crime.

Re: Is It O.K. to Kill Cyclists?

#40

Post by Brakenshire »

djhworld wrote: post #14

I think this is problem that's endemic in the UK too. Our love of the motor vehicle, and design of the city to meet the needs of the motorist just leaves little to no room to make cycling a safe activity. Just take London UK for example, last week one person died and another was critically injured cycling in the city http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-crushed-by-lor... http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk…

Yes, definitely a big problem in the UK too. Although I think support for cycling is perhaps more cross-party than in the US, at least in the political elite. Both the Conservative PM and Mayor of London are nominally pro-bike, also The Times (centre-right paper for those from outside the UK) ran a major campaign on cycle safety, after one of their journalists was killed:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196

Although certainly their freedom to do something serious about the issue is restricted by the anti-metropolitan, anti-liberal vroom vroom demographic.

> If cycling is to ever become safe, cities need to start embracing the bike like they do in the Netherlands, but it's no easy task.

On that topic, this mini-documentary is worthwhile looking at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o

Post reply on HN