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Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

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Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#31

Post by ctdonath »

pja wrote: post #18
ctdonath wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. The problem seems a small matter of an OTA software update. The solution being posted - and deleted - is demanding a replacement of >US$500 of hardware. Whatever the reason for not fixing the actual problem, what's being advocated as a solution isn't: it's just a way of counter-irritating the company into (one hopes) releasing an actual fix. Abusive behavior is not corrected by abusive behavior in return. There'…

It's hardly "malicious behaviour" to expect a company to deliver the service their product advertising claimed.

Responding to that lack of delivery by abusing an unrelated legality, as a means to raise the stakes until a fix occurs, is. It's like screaming at someone until they do what you want, even if they think there's a good reason not to and you don't know what the reason is.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#32

Post by brador »

The worst part is no rollback on IOS without root combined with unstoppable upgrades. The only way I stop my devices updating is keeping them under 1GB free space so the update can't download. This is terrible for an enterprise environment where software stability is a key criteria.

If they allowed rollback this problem would solve itself until a fix was created and pushed out. Instead, they get angry users.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#33

Post by avenger123 »

w0utert wrote: post #23
KaiserPro wrote: post #17

Sadly this isn't news. Apple have been doing this for the last 5 years at least. I support a large fleet of Macpros (Ha, yeah "fast" and "magical" with 5 year old procs in them) Everytime an OS upgrade comes along something is silently broken. Trying to get support is a nightmare. For example when they changed which version of kerberos they used without any warning. Or changing the syntax of automount. Apple are shit…

Apple is shit, Google is shit, Microsoft is shit, and the list continues... Not trying to defend anyone here, but with so many customers, products, software versions, it's no surprise problems will occur, which are sometimes inappropriately handled. This goes for any company, Apple is no exception here. I have years of anecdotal evidence of only positive experiences with Apple products and customer service, the only…

Please, I appreciated the comment and I've heard likewise elsewhere. KaiserPro didn't just say 'Apple is shit', there was examples given for the sentiment. I read more frustration in the statement than just the statement.

Guess what? For one, I appreciate hearing the negatives since in the Apple world all we get is 'how great it all is'. You may not feel the need to praise Apple but other's have gladly taken your place many times over.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#34

Post by [deleted] »

revelation wrote: post #9

Google has a better approach here. In their forums, they will promote power users to semi-moderators. These people then, drunk on the (useless) power bestowed upon them by Google, do their best to fend off and send into nirvana actual problems, or just shower askers with pointless routine stuff (reinstall, turn it off and on again) until they give up.

[deleted]

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#35

Post by TheCapn »

driverdan wrote: post #30

To those who help others on Apple, Google, or other big multinational business discussion groups / forums, why do you do so? I understand helping others with a startup's product that you like. You want it to succeed and an increased customer base will most likely lead to product improvements. But billion dollar businesses have the resources to provide support themselves. Why would you do it for them for free?

I've done it casually on various games or forums simply because when you use the communities sometimes the effort it takes to make a quick helpful comment is worth it. If you're already participating in the community then often times the notoriety of helping others is enough to keep you going. Other times I feel a slight obligation to give back to users who helped me in the first place.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#36

Post by akbiggs »

driverdan wrote: post #30

To those who help others on Apple, Google, or other big multinational business discussion groups / forums, why do you do so? I understand helping others with a startup's product that you like. You want it to succeed and an increased customer base will most likely lead to product improvements. But billion dollar businesses have the resources to provide support themselves. Why would you do it for them for free?

I see the point you're making here, but I feel like the motivations you're pointing at for why people post on discussion groups and forums isn't correct in most cases. At least in my experience, people tend to post helpful advice because helping people out feels good. It also provides an ego boost when people view you as an expert at something.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#37

Post by fennecfoxen »

KaiserPro wrote: post #17

Sadly this isn't news. Apple have been doing this for the last 5 years at least. I support a large fleet of Macpros (Ha, yeah "fast" and "magical" with 5 year old procs in them) Everytime an OS upgrade comes along something is silently broken. Trying to get support is a nightmare. For example when they changed which version of kerberos they used without any warning. Or changing the syntax of automount. Apple are shit…

Recently, though, with expanding market share in the mobile space and laptops, Apple is the new Microsoft.

Unfortunately Microsoft is still the old Microsoft.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#38

Post by avenger123 »

Pxtl wrote: post #22
skwirl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only get 90 days of phone support with new Apple products unless you buy AppleCare. I don't know about the person who wrote this article, but many people do not live near Apple stores. Even where I live in metro Boston, it takes 40 minutes to get to one from my home (red line to green line, ugh). Where I grew up in Upstate NY, the nearest is 70 miles away.

The AppleCare might explain things. They want people to pay for Apple's high-quality care and get the great Apple experience that way, not get low-quality crappy free support from a forum. So the forum is only operated out of necessity - if Apple didn't run one, somebody else would - and it can't be a support avenue because Apple must always control the quality of the experience and you have to pay Apple for that. It…

Apple's obsession with quality should not include leaving user's in a lurch.

I find it surprising you are defending this forum behavior by Apple via their obsession with quality. I see it as the exact opposite.

If Apple was obsessed with quality they would not leave user's hanging dry in a forum. As I can imagine, the forum is a at resort for a lot of people. At a minimum Apple should have some type of escalation policy to help with issues that are not just single data points but seem systematic (as this WiFi issue seems to be).

Your statement basically boils down to if you cannot afford to get Apple's attention (via Apple Care) than don't bother. Also, having the inability to downgrade puts users in a unreasonable situation with no options. I am sure you are not suggesting that users with older phones and out of warranty just don't matter. At a minimum, when Apple offers iOS upgrades, don't dismantle functionality that is already there.

Re: Wow, or from the When-Apple-Became-the-Borg Department

#39

Post by gtufano »

brador wrote: post #32

The worst part is no rollback on IOS without root combined with unstoppable upgrades. The only way I stop my devices updating is keeping them under 1GB free space so the update can't download. This is terrible for an enterprise environment where software stability is a key criteria. If they allowed rollback this problem would solve itself until a fix was created and pushed out. Instead, they get angry users.

Automatic upgrades stop is only one switch in preferences away. I use it to preserve iOS versions I have to test with.

About rollbacks, I'm told that this will leave the baseband modem (not downgradable) in a version not tested with main OS. I can imagine Apple (or any corporation) not willing to support it (if it's true, it seems reasonable, but I really don't know). It can be done, btw, only it's not easy, not for end-users, and, AFAIK, must be planned before upgrade (I know many people that did it).

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