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CodeCombat in Y Combinator

blog.nickwinter.net

31–40 of 85 posts

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#31
post #26
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Sillysaurus, thanks a lot for the feedback. We've been talking to gamedevs and VCs and so far nobody has raised a flag about opensourcing everything, which is what we're thinking we're going to do. In the words of one VC we spoke to "it's all about the branding and community, who cares who has the code?" It feels risky, but we really think that it's consistent with the intention of the game to make it easy for peo…

For what it's worth - I'm in the process of reading the biography of John Carmack and John Romero of id software (interesting read...recommend it!) and apparently Carmack is a pretty big proponent for open source software: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Carmack#Free_software

Thanks for the link mbesto, will check that out.

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#32
post #16

I gave the first level over to my wife (who is a non-programmer, and has no interest in programming, but loves RPGs). Unfortunately, it didn't work out too well. She was able to make it to the ogre, then then misspelled the attack command. At that point, her browser froze, then continued to give her a script error at " http://codecombat.com/javascripts/vendor.js:52612" . Which is too bad, because I'd love to show her…

Sorry about that testing, our server sometimes messes up the code sync; for now, just copy it, delete it, and paste it in again (all the code). We have it on our list of stuff to fix, but didn't expect another traffic spike so soon and so had pushed it off a bit!

Unfortunately, she doesn't want to try again. But good luck!

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#33
post #24
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi iamshs, we just noticed that we are getting traffic from HN, pretty wild, we've barely stabilized things and now traffic is picking up again. Yikes. When you say the code editor disappears, do you mean the entire right pane of the player screen? Could you send me a screenshot and any steps to reproduce it at george@codecombat.com? Would love to get that fixed for you. What browser are you using by the way? Althoug…

Sure, I will chronicle the bug next time and send you the screenshot and steps. I am on FF 23 on Win 8. Basically, after the code finishes auto-casting the whole right coding pane disappears. It has happened two times out of maybe 20-25 sessions, and I do not know what triggers it. Awesome. Looking forward to new additions.

Great, we'll look forward to reproducing and destroying this bug. Of course the best thing for us to do will be to do a comprehensive QA pass through Safari and FF rather than doing a "oh my god, the launch is tomorrow" runthrough. :)

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#34
post #23

This is the same guy from skritter.com. Wonder what's happening to skritter?

Hi Ryan, we've been working on stabilizing the Skritter code base for the last year, and have hired a team of extremely dedicated and intelligent folks to continue running it. We're planning to make an announcement about our commitment to CodeCombat in the next month or so when we get all the team changes finalized, but needless to say that Skritter is still moving forward.

Glad to hear that, skritter is amazing! Good luck with your next endeavours :)

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#35
post #28

Was chatting with a someone from CodeCombat on olark. they had no idea it was on HN but the traffic was booming. Ah startups...

Ha, Nick pointed it out to us about 30 minutes ago, the analytics have been so crazy we've largely stopped watching them for the time being. It's not quite the Techcrunch effect, but the traffic has been through the roof for the past 4 days, HN was sort of lost in the noise. I didn't ask Nick how he figured it out, but I maybe one of the Olarkers mentioned it. :)

yep I was talking to Nick :)

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#36

Hi, gamedev here. At one point on stage, you brought up the possibility of open sourcing your code, and Paul cautioned you that you may want to follow game industry conventions. There are two reasons the game industry tends to keep their code closed-source. 1) It has been lucrative for game studios to sell licenses to their closed-source engine. Some game studios, such as Id Software, have made hundreds of millions o…

Make the level editor open source, and the main site closed source? Make the core game engine open source, but keep the surrounding infrastructure closed? Let people modify and run forks of the game engine (different art, physics, perhaps) on your main site? Open source your last generation work (as applicable)? Just thinking out loud here.

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#37
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry about that testing, our server sometimes messes up the code sync; for now, just copy it, delete it, and paste it in again (all the code). We have it on our list of stuff to fix, but didn't expect another traffic spike so soon and so had pushed it off a bit!

Unfortunately, she doesn't want to try again. But good luck!

Yeah, that's understandable, thanks for trying though, we'll have more content soon, and it should be more stable to boot, so perhaps we can impress her at a later date. :)

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#38
post #36

Hi, gamedev here. At one point on stage, you brought up the possibility of open sourcing your code, and Paul cautioned you that you may want to follow game industry conventions. There are two reasons the game industry tends to keep their code closed-source. 1) It has been lucrative for game studios to sell licenses to their closed-source engine. Some game studios, such as Id Software, have made hundreds of millions o…

Make the level editor open source, and the main site closed source? Make the core game engine open source, but keep the surrounding infrastructure closed? Let people modify and run forks of the game engine (different art, physics, perhaps) on your main site? Open source your last generation work (as applicable)? Just thinking out loud here.

Yeah, those are all definitely on our radar, especially the idea to keep some surrounding infrastructure closed. That might be motivated by the wrong reasons though, if we don't have to open source it, we can keep it at "internal use tool" quality and devote our time elsewhere. :)

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#39
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Ryan, we've been working on stabilizing the Skritter code base for the last year, and have hired a team of extremely dedicated and intelligent folks to continue running it. We're planning to make an announcement about our commitment to CodeCombat in the next month or so when we get all the team changes finalized, but needless to say that Skritter is still moving forward.

Glad to hear that, skritter is amazing! Good luck with your next endeavours :)

Definitely, thanks for your understanding!

Re: CodeCombat in Y Combinator

#40
post #15

Hi, gamedev here. At one point on stage, you brought up the possibility of open sourcing your code, and Paul cautioned you that you may want to follow game industry conventions. There are two reasons the game industry tends to keep their code closed-source. 1) It has been lucrative for game studios to sell licenses to their closed-source engine. Some game studios, such as Id Software, have made hundreds of millions o…

Hi Sillysaurus, thanks a lot for the feedback. We've been talking to gamedevs and VCs and so far nobody has raised a flag about opensourcing everything, which is what we're thinking we're going to do. In the words of one VC we spoke to "it's all about the branding and community, who cares who has the code?" It feels risky, but we really think that it's consistent with the intention of the game to make it easy for peo…

we spoke with a YC alum that has open sourced 90% of his codebase and recommended keeping a small subset of it proprietary. He said that when he was out fundraising it defused a lot of tension when VCs and angels would ask about his open source policy and he could say "well, I keep some of my hardest algorithms in a closed repo." As a game, we have the art, which I agree is a pretty substantial barrier to copying us (many tens of thousands of dollars in our case), but would you still recommend 100% open source vs 90 or 95%?

Well, you have users beating down your door. Fundraising is never easy, but you'll have a much easier time with it due to your popularity. And if Sequoia are smart, they will invest in you, because you've discovered an entirely new game design. Historically, whenever someone has invented a game design that turns out to be immensely popular (Pong, Doom, Minecraft, etc), that's almost always resulted in the company becoming a hugely successful game studio. So if you focus on growing your community and on keeping the game fun, then it's quite plausible your studio will be hugely successful too.

Additionally, if you release your code 100% open source, you will get an insane amount of goodwill from the gamedev community. Right now the community is starved for examples of open-source games that actually work. Right now newbie programmers can go find some code snippets for various little tasks, little parts of a game's engine, like how to draw a sprite. But a tangible, cohesive product? Something that newbie programmers can git clone and actually run, and which actually functions? That's almost unheard of. (Quake and Doom engines are open source, but they don't provide any art assets, so newbie programmers can't download the code and do anything useful with it.) And that's a very good position to be in, because it's unheard of in the same way Rails was unheard of before it became popular. Meaning, if you do it, then you'll earn the instant loyalty of thousands of indie gamedevs. The wonderful PR you'll receive will be such a huge benefit to your company that it seems totally unjustified for anyone to be concerned that someone will steal your idea by stealing your code. (For what it's worth, I know of exactly zero times it's happened in practice. Code theft is a very overblown concern, especially in a hits-based industry like game development.)

You'll also enjoy many intangible benefits derived from open sourcing a fully functional game. For example, after Rails became popular, 37signals probably found it much easier to find and hire talent, since they were a sexy company to work for. I would bet you'll wind up in the same position. In fact, just thinking about you open sourcing this game makes me want to go work for you. If newbie gamedevs can download it, run it, learn how it works, tweak it, and become inspired to make thier own games... well, that's what gamedev is all about. It's why kids want to be gamedevs rather than other kinds of devs. So you'll be a huge boon to the gamedev community, which means talented people will want to work for you because of it.

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