Live data from Hacker News

Google Cloud Datastore

cloud.google.com

31–40 of 42 posts

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#31
post #26
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a cloud service. I'd imagine they will be much less likely to kill these services outright. The impact on paying customers would just be too large. That's not to say they won't sunset certain features though.

I don't think you can get more "paying customers" than Google Checkout, but that just got axed.

The issue was they weren't making enough money. I seriously think it was a small sliver part of a pie chart dominated by PayPal and Amazon.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#32
post #2

That looks like an awesome product! Kudos to the team, they truly did a great technical job here! From a market perspective, it kind of makes no sense. I challenge CTO/CIOs to justify building their company on a closed source critical product with no option. While that used to be how things worked in the 90s, I don't think that is as acceptable as it used to be. Maybe the answer is "well it's the only thing that work…

"a closed source critical product with no option."

Sadly, I disagree. While it isn't SOP for a startup to go down this route, many companies still end up dealing with vendor lock-in.

Unfortunately, Google is going to continue dealing with the stigma of abandoning and sunsetting their own product line, regardless if it's not happened in the enterprise sector. I just don't trust them.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#33
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can get more "paying customers" than Google Checkout, but that just got axed.

The issue was they weren't making enough money. I seriously think it was a small sliver part of a pie chart dominated by PayPal and Amazon.

Ok, but we were talking about paying customers, and the people using Checkout were certainly paying for it.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agreed. For most companies, a couple instances of MySQL (or PostgreSQL/Oracle/SQLServer) with replication and backup should provide 4 nines uptime (which is probably comparable with what Google/Amazon offers in terms of availability). Throw in a few memcache here and there and you can easily scale up to millions of requests a day. FWIW, even Facebook is running on mysql/memcache.

It's not the hardware costs, it's the head count to setup and keep those database instances running, backed up, and tuned. That's the IaaS pitch -- no sysadmin. As for the vendor lock, most of the datastore API is very similar to other nosql APIs I've seen. It wouldn't be trivial to switch, but not impossible either. I imagine it'd be even easier if you used a orm that is widely supported but I stay away from those,…

DevOps to the rescue. With new tools coming out all the time, the setup/costs will get lower. Docker is one such tool.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#35
post #26
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a cloud service. I'd imagine they will be much less likely to kill these services outright. The impact on paying customers would just be too large. That's not to say they won't sunset certain features though.

I don't think you can get more "paying customers" than Google Checkout, but that just got axed.

The impact of killing Google Checkout for customers using it was probably minimal, since nobody was using Google Checkout (hence the reason Google killed it.)

Cloud services on the other hand, killing those would be highly disruptive and would probably effectively kill any products built on top of them. It's hard to imagine Google killing any of these services, unless one of them say is wildly unpopular and only a small handful of people will be outraged if it is killed. Even then, it's seems insane to think about Google shutting off database or computing services people are using to run businesses.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#36
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the hardware costs, it's the head count to setup and keep those database instances running, backed up, and tuned. That's the IaaS pitch -- no sysadmin. As for the vendor lock, most of the datastore API is very similar to other nosql APIs I've seen. It wouldn't be trivial to switch, but not impossible either. I imagine it'd be even easier if you used a orm that is widely supported but I stay away from those,…

DevOps to the rescue. With new tools coming out all the time, the setup/costs will get lower. Docker is one such tool.

I'm afraid I don't see your point. Docker, and some of the other new system tools seem like great products. I'm sure they make sysadmin's lives easier than when they had to run everything via custom shell scripts. It probably makes them more efficient, so you don't need as many sysadmins per server. But I don't see how it is ever going to reduce the need to less than 1.0 sysadmins. And just as it will make sysadmins that work for your company more efficient, so to will it make IaaS/PaaS' sysadmins more efficient.

As a developer, I have very little interest in administering databases, servers, networks, and so on. It's not what I'm good at, and it's not what I'm interested in, it's not what I know. That the tools now use Turing complete configuration language that also happen to be a fairly popular general purpose languages doesn't change any of that.

Certainly, the IaaS/PasS pitch isn't for everyone. But for those who are in the sweet spot, it is a very compelling pitch. Frankly whether or not the platform is open source doesn't really impact its appeal very much. At least from where I sit.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#37

This looks awesome, but I would be hesitant to try it since you can't know if Google will keep the service alive a few years from now.

You don't know that any company will keep a service alive a few years from now. Either (a) the company is willing to shutdown services that don't make sufficient money to justify keeping them, which creates a risk, or (b) the company is not willing to do that, which creates a risk of the company failing and either going out of business or being purchased by someone who is willing to shutdown the parts that aren't making money.

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#38
post #14

Still not standalone: “You should be aware that Cloud Datastore has a serving component that runs on Google App Engine, so there will be instance hour costs.” https://cloud.google.com/pricing/datastore

Even if the serving component runs on Google App Engine, you don't have to deploy or manage it yourself. Once you activate Cloud Datastore you can access it like an other Google APIs: https://developers.google.com/datastore/docs/apis/v1beta2/

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#39

This looks pretty cool. On the downside it can't do aggregates, it can't do query filters on more than one property, it can't do joins, it has its own unique query language, and it is a proprietary system with no chance of moving to another provider or hosting it yourself. Speaking of it having its own query language, perhaps that isn't a big deal given you can't do any non-trivial queries. For me, the pejorative NoS…

You can do query equality filters on more than one property using composite filters: https://developers.google.com/datastore/docs/concepts/querie... and composite indexes definition: https://developers.google.com/datastore/docs/tools/indexconf...

Re: Google Cloud Datastore

#40

I've got a little experience with using GAE for a production app, and the datastore was my favorite part. A lot of their components are a little bit jank, but the Python ndb library was pretty nice. I definitely hope they plan to include ndb in their googledatastore library. I feel like ndb is the actual selling point to me, and would make me really want to use this for a production app.

You can watch this issue to follow progress on NDB support: https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/google-cloud-datastor...
Post reply on HN