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Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

nytimes.com

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Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#31

Post by mapcar »

fredsanford wrote: post #13

It's funny how this positive article with a feel good story brings out the negativity at hnews. Sometimes, reading stuff here just makes me go WTF???

I come to HN for a balanced perspective. If the article is positive, then I want to hear the other side of it. Like the comment about how it has the feeling of being cooperative but not really effective in redistributing resources. I don't know if it's cooperation or altruism, but I'm okay with comments that don't necessarily reaffirm the positive tone of the article.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#32

Post by rickyc091 »

shrikant wrote: post #19
alecsmart1 wrote: post #14

Am curious how this works. What amount do you pay forward or do you swipe your credit card for an amount?

When you're picking up your order at a drive-through, typically the person behind you had already placed their order. You then just ask for your bill to include theirs as well. Or if you're part of a chain then just state that you'd like to pay their bill instead.

I was always curious as to how this worked. Thanks for clarifying it.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#33

Post by vidarh »

adhipg wrote: post #20
davidw wrote: post #9

Makes you think about how much fast food is consumed in the US. I like a McBurger myself once in a while, but people eat altogether too much of that junk over there. Nice article though: people in the US, especially outside the big cities, are often very kind. My Italian wife is always pleasantly surprised by this when we're there.

I think that's true worldwide. People are often much kinder and care about their community more outside the bigger cities.

I don't think people are all that much kinder and care more about their community overall, but rather big cities puts people into "survival mode" a lot, where we are trying to cope with too many people around.

It'd be exhausting to acknowledge everyone we pass, much less great them in a friendly way. It'd be exhausting if everyone asked you if you need help (and so too few end up doing it instead) just because it's obvious you're having a bad day.

And sheer numbers means running into the occasional people trying to scam you etc. is much more likely, and another reason for people to be more sceptical of your motivations etc.

Get past the shields people put up to cope with this, and there's plenty of kindness to find in big cities too.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#34

Post by vidarh »

hxa7241 wrote: post #30

This is quite pointless because it essentially cancels out. To get a cooperative structure you have to give away surplus -- that is, people with more have to give it to people with less. Yes, redistribution ! That seems a dirty idea in a substantial part of USA politics. So 'pay it forward' chains are a peculiar thing: they summon the feeling of cooperation, in an acceptable way, without actually being effectively co…

The chains are peculiar yes, but not that peculiar: It's strongly ingrained in us to return favours, to the point that giving someone something is a brutally effective way of exploiting them by later asking for a bigger favour back (e.g. consider Hare Krishna, that tended to use flowers for this purpose). The effect is so strong that we often try to prevent receiving favours because we don't want to become indebted.

In that light, these chains are easy to explain: People might like the idea, but people are also likely to want to prevent a feeling of being indebted - if you can't pay back the person who did you the favour, paying it forward to the person is the next best thing. There's also social pressure to show that you're as charitable as the guy in front of you, and against being seen as the person who is either "too greedy" or too poor.

There's also very low perceived cost: You were intending to pay for your meal anyway; that you're actually paying for someone elses meal makes little difference for you - it's more like friends that takes turn paying the bill when going out, where it is a social gesture rather than an attempt at charity.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#36

Post by jongold »

webhat wrote: post #35

I thought the gesture was great, although I couldn't help wondering if it's an act of kindness to give away fast food in a nation that is struggling with obesity. Could just be me.

It's the thought that counts, but from a European perspective it's a bizarre thought nonetheless. Quaint and cute and gross all at the same time.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#37

Post by frogpelt »

hxa7241 wrote: post #30

This is quite pointless because it essentially cancels out. To get a cooperative structure you have to give away surplus -- that is, people with more have to give it to people with less. Yes, redistribution ! That seems a dirty idea in a substantial part of USA politics. So 'pay it forward' chains are a peculiar thing: they summon the feeling of cooperation, in an acceptable way, without actually being effectively co…

It may be pointless to you. That doesn't mean it's pointless.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#38

Post by SeanDav »

hxa7241 wrote: post #30

This is quite pointless because it essentially cancels out. To get a cooperative structure you have to give away surplus -- that is, people with more have to give it to people with less. Yes, redistribution ! That seems a dirty idea in a substantial part of USA politics. So 'pay it forward' chains are a peculiar thing: they summon the feeling of cooperation, in an acceptable way, without actually being effectively co…

Could not disagree more with you.

It is far from pointless. First of all the next person in line feels good, because a stranger helped them with no underhanded motives. Then there is a high chance they will pass it on, getting a second dose of feeling good, because most people feel good about helping others.

That's a double dose of feeling good. I don't see what is being cancelled out here.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#39

Post by frogpelt »

adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Wow, this almost makes Chick-fil-A seem like a non-bigoted 21th century hospitality establishment. Only almost though.

The hippie/'open your mind' culture has left people feeling if someone doesn't agree with or support all of my lifestyle choices, if they tell me what I'm doing is wrong, they must be a bigot.

It's a fallacy.

Re: Ma’am, Your Burger Has Been Paid For

#40

Post by Osmium »

hxa7241 wrote: post #30

This is quite pointless because it essentially cancels out. To get a cooperative structure you have to give away surplus -- that is, people with more have to give it to people with less. Yes, redistribution ! That seems a dirty idea in a substantial part of USA politics. So 'pay it forward' chains are a peculiar thing: they summon the feeling of cooperation, in an acceptable way, without actually being effectively co…

Ah, yes, you want a surplus, but a surplus of what exactly? No one cares about the burgers. It's a surplus of good-will and happiness that they want to create, and I think to that end it's very effective indeed.
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