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I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

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Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#31

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

RodericDay wrote: post #24
L_Rahman wrote: post #16

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

It's worth noting that the parent post does say that the government should step in, but doesn't because of corruption. I don't think he/she is defending the corruption.

I'm with you on the "it's not good enough," but at the same time, you can't just close down the sweatshops if that would make their lives worse. I would say that this is a classic case of needing government to step in, because the problem is not one that the market can solve: As the parent points out, it's in the interest of each sweatshop owner to minimize labor costs. Only at the point where labor becomes scares is the market value of labor going to rise, and a lot of abuse can happen waiting for that eventuality. If it ever happens.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#32

Post by rubberband »

beering wrote: post #30
RodericDay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

No, this is just your angry knee-jerk reaction so you can feel good about taking the moral high-ground, and you're scrambling to find the negative in every comment. The comment you're replying is a detailed comment that also states that there should be more done to improve working conditions and wages. Your comment is a rant about how we're a bunch of "grown-ass white men" (thanks for assuming things about me) who ba…

Is there a label for this kind of derailing, angry comment?

Moral superiority, I suppose.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#33

Post by cglee »

beering wrote: post #30
RodericDay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

No, this is just your angry knee-jerk reaction so you can feel good about taking the moral high-ground, and you're scrambling to find the negative in every comment. The comment you're replying is a detailed comment that also states that there should be more done to improve working conditions and wages. Your comment is a rant about how we're a bunch of "grown-ass white men" (thanks for assuming things about me) who ba…

slacktivism ... maybe angry slacktivism

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#34

Post by corresation »

RodericDay wrote: post #24
L_Rahman wrote: post #16

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

Your position is deeply irrational and unrealistic. It may give you some sense of moral comfort, but it has zero application to the real world, and is the fodder of a million asinine Facebook forwards.

People aren't "justifying" anything, they're stating actual realities of the world. 30 years ago South Korea was the sweatshop of the world. Today it is an economic powerhouse with largely first world living conditions. The same is increasingly true of China. Countries don't just skip that stage in their evolution, short of some mythical utopia project, however much we might like to think they can.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#35

Post by jvm »

Sometimes I think westerners just can't wrap their heads around just how poor Bangladesh is.

Their GDP per capita: $2000, adjusted for living costs (PPP). Please, everyone, try to wrap your head around that number.

That means a totally equal distribution of resources would give everyone $2000 a year. GDP counts all money spent on everything, so factory safety compliance costs would come out of that $2000. Consider Mexican migrant workers in the states scraping by on $10k are earning 5x as much as that number, and no, it is not made up for by cost of living, this is taking that into account.

Yeah the stuff that goes on is really messed up. And no, nobody deserves to live like that. But unlike in America, where GDP is at $50k/capita PPP, redistribution actually cannot solve the problem. $2k/year is unacceptably close to subsistence. It's just as important in this case to grow the economy larger as it is to redistribute more fairly.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#36

Post by calibraxis »

RodericDay wrote: post #24
L_Rahman wrote: post #16

As someone who's spent his life roughly equally split across Bangladesh and America, I thought I'd provide some perspective. The questions I ask myself about this situation are: 1. Are the lives of the people who work in these factories better or worse as a result of these jobs existing? The answer I end up arriving at repeatedly is that it is a resounding improvement in the lives of almost everyone. RMG factories em…

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

Thank you for enduring the indignant replies!

Yes, this place is dominated by strata of society driven to justify organized child labor, even after seeing the face of one such 9 year old. Throughout history, such people justified all sorts of things.

I know many like them in person, and am constantly weirded out. (One reason I dislike hanging out with programmers, managers and investors.) The banally evil things stumbling from their mouths... For example, when something vaguely feminist comes up, someone often tells me that women are mentally inferior to men, apparently expecting me to smirk with them. (As opposed to wonder what planet these creatures come from, and why they thought they could randomly splutter that in civilized society.) Fortunately, I have the freedom to tell them what I think, and am grateful for the reminder that they're nothing like the person I want to be.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#37

Post by dragonwriter »

jvm wrote: post #35

Sometimes I think westerners just can't wrap their heads around just how poor Bangladesh is. Their GDP per capita: $2000, adjusted for living costs (PPP). Please, everyone, try to wrap your head around that number. That means a totally equal distribution of resources would give everyone $2000 a year. GDP counts all money spent on everything, so factory safety compliance costs would come out of that $2000. Consider Me…

Your argument assumes that distribution of wealth has no effect on economic growth -- e.g., that distribution changes are zero-sum not only over the immediate term but over the long term as well. I'd expect the propensity to spend money within the domestic economy to be higher at the lower end of the distribution and lower and the higher end, so I'd expect downward redistribution to, ceteris paribus, increase the domestic velocity of money and expand GDP.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#38

Post by tptacek »

beering wrote: post #30
RodericDay wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I answer people that say this is: It's not good enough. Yes, you can come up with all the explanation whatsoever you want to how this is a ~local maxima~ of happiness, but the fact is that we live on a much higher one with tons of disposable income and benefit from their work... so it s not a ~global maxima~ (not even close) so we should do better. What can I say? I'm definitely more to the left than most peo…

No, this is just your angry knee-jerk reaction so you can feel good about taking the moral high-ground, and you're scrambling to find the negative in every comment. The comment you're replying is a detailed comment that also states that there should be more done to improve working conditions and wages. Your comment is a rant about how we're a bunch of "grown-ass white men" (thanks for assuming things about me) who ba…

I call it outrage tourism. Most of the time, people commenting like this are simply trying on other people's purported outrage to see how it feels.

Re: I got hired at a Bangladesh sweatshop. Meet my 9-year-old boss [video]

#40

Post by tptacek »

dragonwriter wrote: post #37
jvm wrote: post #35

Sometimes I think westerners just can't wrap their heads around just how poor Bangladesh is. Their GDP per capita: $2000, adjusted for living costs (PPP). Please, everyone, try to wrap your head around that number. That means a totally equal distribution of resources would give everyone $2000 a year. GDP counts all money spent on everything, so factory safety compliance costs would come out of that $2000. Consider Me…

Your argument assumes that distribution of wealth has no effect on economic growth -- e.g., that distribution changes are zero-sum not only over the immediate term but over the long term as well. I'd expect the propensity to spend money within the domestic economy to be higher at the lower end of the distribution and lower and the higher end, so I'd expect downward redistribution to, ceteris paribus , increase the do…

You might be taking his point too literally. Another way to look at it is, if the owners of factories in Bangladesh were maximally generous and civic-minded, how much could they improve the lives of garment workers? Is the answer "not very much"?
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