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Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

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Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#31

Post by buster »

ye wrote: post #16
TillE wrote: post #14

The smeary tone of this article is really quite obvious and unpleasant, and I don't think qualifying it as a "conspiracy theory" makes up for that. For example the claim that "Christian Horner isn’t saying much", when in fact he's flatly denied any kind of rule breaking.

When one guy leads by 30+ seconds, while everyone else fights for fractions of a second, either there's a major breakthrough or somebody is cheating.

That's 30 seconds accumulated over many rounds. You should compare 1-2 seconds per round to your fractions of a second and that's not as uncommon as you suggest. For example, look at the Singapore Grand Prix 2011, except for #2 there are similar margins between the top racers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Singapore_Grand_Prix Or Australia 2011, Vettel won with 22 seconds ahead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Australian_Grand_Prix

I'm sure there are enough examples to be found. Very often you have can find a margin of around 20-30 seconds between position 1 and 3 and sometimes large margins between 1 and 2.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#32

Post by ronaldx »

brey wrote: post #7

In an environment where innovation has been strictly regulated against (better engine management software? NOPE. better foil design? NOPE), the fine art of sticking to the letter of the law but totally bending the spirit of it is naturally where the bleeding edge of F1 design is going to lie.

Much the same in cycling - there are many innovations that could potentially improve speeds: as a simple example, recumbent cycles are faster under many conditions.

But, the UCI sets its rules based on innovations up to 1972, in order to make a fair comparison with Eddy Merckx.

Consumer bikes surely suffer for this lack of innovation at race level.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#34

Post by oostevo »

anonymous wrote: post #17

Couldn't it be some sort of new notification system for the driver which gives him instinctive feedback and lets him drive the engine the same way traction control would?

From my (limited) experience in (not even close to F1-level) racing, the physical sensations of the tires being near the limits of grip are fairly obvious. The reason why traction control helps so much is that a computer can adjust power accordingly vastly faster than a human ever could.

The drivers are extraordinarily focused professionals during races. I can't imagine adding some signaling system that would let the driver react any faster than he already was.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#35

Post by CompelTechnic »

OhhHeyTyler wrote: post #3

Would it be fair to fine the team if they were in fact using the "assisted KERS suspension"? Technically it is not traction control.

Their implementation is almost certainly within the letter of the law in the rule book. So, no fine- but it could likely end up being the case that the rules are amended to ban whatever tech they are using in future seasons.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#36

Post by 7952 »

cjrp wrote: post #10

If the secret is the automated use of KERS, you'd see it in the on-screen graphics (the HUD-esque display shows when a driver is deploying KERS). Also the article makes the comparison in noise - but surely that noise is caused by the engine being limited/throttled, something which they could not get away with in this season since the ECUs are all the same. A KERS-based traction control wouldn't make the same noise be…

I'm not an engineer but couldn't you adjust how much energy the system generates on the recovery stage? If the magnets in the generator are electrical rather than rare earth you could adjust the strength of the magnets and the breaking affect of the generator would be adjustable. This would be akin to how ABS uses brake friction but with faster adjustment and less loss of energy.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#37

Post by paddyoloughlin »

rwmj wrote: post #33

I think they should just let the teams use whatever technology they can invent, as long as it doesn't make it unsafe. Who cares how good the drivers are? The technology is far more interesting.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I believe that the market (spectators) does not agree with you and that is the reason why F1 has had more and more regulations added to it.

Technological innovation appeared to be leading to a sport that was losing its spectacle more and more. And that's what the vast majority of people who watch(ed) F1 wanted.

I love technological advantages as much as anyone, but people relate to people, not machines.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#38

Post by 7952 »

polymatter wrote: post #25
sharkweek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friends and I always enjoy debating this -- At what point does a scientific improvement become too great of an advantage for competing athletes

when its no longer entertaining

I would argue that it was more entertaining before it was made safe through technological advancements. It would be interesting to see a series that used self driving cars that could take more risks.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#39

Post by k-mcgrady »

rwmj wrote: post #33

I think they should just let the teams use whatever technology they can invent, as long as it doesn't make it unsafe. Who cares how good the drivers are? The technology is far more interesting.

That wouldn't work. Firstly the smaller teams would be gone as they couldn't afford to compete. It's also likely a lot of the mid-field teams would struggle to afford to compete (Lotus, one of the top 5 teams can't even pay it's top driver). Secondly your qualification 'as long as it doesn't make it unsafe' is one of the reasons there are so many rules in F1. It's an incredibly dangerous sport. The engineers could easily make the cars go much quicker - but it would be too dangerous and costly.

Re: Formula 1′s Leading Team Has a Big Secret

#40

Post by vincentkriek »

buster wrote: post #31
ye wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When one guy leads by 30+ seconds, while everyone else fights for fractions of a second, either there's a major breakthrough or somebody is cheating.

That's 30 seconds accumulated over many rounds. You should compare 1-2 seconds per round to your fractions of a second and that's not as uncommon as you suggest. For example, look at the Singapore Grand Prix 2011, except for #2 there are similar margins between the top racers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Singapore_Grand_Prix Or Australia 2011, Vettel won with 22 seconds ahead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/201…

The problem is not only the +30 second lead. It's the time the 30 second lead was achieved in. After the second safety car, Vettel was just driving away from Rosberg with 2+ seconds a lap. That's an unbelievable difference, with Rosberg also racing for a top team (namely Mercedes, same team as Hamilton). There are also speculations Rosberg was on old tires and held the rest of the pack up, but still, 2+ seconds a lap is incredible.
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