The Self-Employed Depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#31

Post by olefoo » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 4:49 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #29

olefoo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there a point you were trying to make?

Yes. Her problem is not simply bad luck. Her problem is that for a while she was unwilling to entertain jobs she didn't like, and even now she only does it for 4 hours/week. That's what won't happen to most of us. Rather than filling out the form for food assistance, we will be filling out recruiters info sheets describing "a time I worked as part of a team" and rating our C++ skills on a scale of 1-10.

You are assuming that there are even menial jobs available that would allow her to support herself, given the sheer number of other people who are looking for those same jobs that may not be true.

And as for the lifestyle choice part of your criticism, this site is very much a glass house in which to throw that particular brick; if you're working on a startup and doing your work in a popular scripting language, that's a lifestyle choice; a more financially rational decision would be to go and fix someone's J2EE monstrosity of an accounting/ERP project too big to fail.

And if some clever person comes up with a machine that can crank out code to spec, better and with fewer errors than human programmers... Some of us will adapt to the new situation and carry on as Dev/PM dealing with AI instead of coworkers, but some percentage will be left high and dry.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#32

Post by xsmasher » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 5:24 PM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #19

I read the comments here and I was prepared for some tale of woe involving gross financial mismanagement and staggering levels of yuppie self-regard. Then I read the article; now I'm disgusted, with the attitudes on display here. I hate to break it to you guys but what's happening to her could happen to you. To put it in terms of a startup she got into a booming market and was moderately successful, when the economy…

To be fair, freelance yoga instructor sounds like a luxury service provider. Yacht salesmen are probably having a rough year too. She is not a general contractor or a self-important web developer.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#33

Post by yummyfajitas » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:01 PM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #31

yummyfajitas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Her problem is not simply bad luck. Her problem is that for a while she was unwilling to entertain jobs she didn't like, and even now she only does it for 4 hours/week. That's what won't happen to most of us. Rather than filling out the form for food assistance, we will be filling out recruiters info sheets describing "a time I worked as part of a team" and rating our C++ skills on a scale of 1-10.

You are assuming that there are even menial jobs available that would allow her to support herself, given the sheer number of other people who are looking for those same jobs that may not be true. And as for the lifestyle choice part of your criticism, this site is very much a glass house in which to throw that particular brick; if you're working on a startup and doing your work in a popular scripting language, that'…

I'm not assuming there are menial jobs available to her. Based on her statement about non-yoga instructor jobs and the fact that the article doesn't mention a search for them, I'm assuming she is only willing to work as a yoga teacher.

She is being criticized because she refuses to enter a different market even though her current market has collapsed.

I'm also not criticizing the lifestyle choices. I'm criticizing the unwillingness to reevaluate those choices when circumstances change.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#34

Post by mlinsey » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:01 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #20

roc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered the same for -ages-. Why isn't there a law that -requires- any employer who provides insurance to contribute the dollar amount they would put toward an employee's plan to -any- private plan the employee wishes? Currently you need a fairly generous employer to even offer you a cash 'bonus' for waiving company insurance and buying private. And even then, it's very rarely comparable to what the company wou…

Because we don't have a democratic capitalist system, we have a corporatist oligopoly. The federal govt was set up to be toothless -- and consequently lacking in responsibility -- on purpose. Then it overstepped those bounds in terms of power, but never in terms of responsibility. So you have a rate of federal income tax that is double, triple, or more that of your resident state, while getting almost nothing in retu…

(And no, I can't just declare myself a resident of a state that has no income tax. That doesn't work.)

Curious, why doesn't this work? It was my understanding that was a reason why many folks living abroad, especially military personnel, declared residence in Florida.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#35

Post by reyu » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:19 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #28

asciilifeform wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't intend to return, why pay the tax?

I mean I never intend to move back to the US. I like to visit. And I'd like to not get arrested at the border and forcibly repatriated, if you get my drift.

Extradition is kind of a pain too.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#36

Post by menloparkbum » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:34 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #20

roc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered the same for -ages-. Why isn't there a law that -requires- any employer who provides insurance to contribute the dollar amount they would put toward an employee's plan to -any- private plan the employee wishes? Currently you need a fairly generous employer to even offer you a cash 'bonus' for waiving company insurance and buying private. And even then, it's very rarely comparable to what the company wou…

Because we don't have a democratic capitalist system, we have a corporatist oligopoly. The federal govt was set up to be toothless -- and consequently lacking in responsibility -- on purpose. Then it overstepped those bounds in terms of power, but never in terms of responsibility. So you have a rate of federal income tax that is double, triple, or more that of your resident state, while getting almost nothing in retu…

I can't just declare myself a resident of a state that has no income tax. That doesn't work

I know many expats, my cousin and sister included, who establish residency in South Dakota for this purpose. The state only requires a one night stay and a mailing address to establish residency. Once you stay overnight you can get a driver's license which I think is good for 10 years. Many retired people who live in Mexico do this and there are mail forwarding agencies who will act as your mailing address for a fee.

It might be a pain in the ass for people who grew up in more populated areas, but I'm from the high plains so it wasn't such a radical idea. Some of my relatives actually live, or have lived in SD. There may be other states with similarly lax residency requirements.

edit: here's more info from a quick google search: http://www.roamingtimes.com/blog/south-dakota-residency.htm

note that it says "a handful of states make it easy to establish residency." i tried another google search to find a list of the residency requirements of each state. i found this:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781452.html

From a cursory look at this list I THINK that SD is the only state with no state income tax and very relaxed residency requirements.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#37

Post by olefoo » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:57 PM UTC

xsmasher wrote: post #32

olefoo wrote: post #19

I read the comments here and I was prepared for some tale of woe involving gross financial mismanagement and staggering levels of yuppie self-regard. Then I read the article; now I'm disgusted, with the attitudes on display here. I hate to break it to you guys but what's happening to her could happen to you. To put it in terms of a startup she got into a booming market and was moderately successful, when the economy…

To be fair, freelance yoga instructor sounds like a luxury service provider. Yacht salesmen are probably having a rough year too. She is not a general contractor or a self-important web developer.

Yep. Although there is plenty of evidence that Yoga can be a very effective health exercise and can help prevent conditions that cost far more to fix than a few more mornings a week working on your body.

It's not impossible that her services are systematically undervalued currently; after all in the real world markets are not at all rational.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#38

Post by natrius » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 6:59 PM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #19

I read the comments here and I was prepared for some tale of woe involving gross financial mismanagement and staggering levels of yuppie self-regard. Then I read the article; now I'm disgusted, with the attitudes on display here. I hate to break it to you guys but what's happening to her could happen to you. To put it in terms of a startup she got into a booming market and was moderately successful, when the economy…

I'm fairly certain that the iPhone part is what is getting at most people, including me. It seems like it would be cheaper to break the contract and get a bare bones plan.

Food stamps. iPhone. The incongruity of that alone should be enough to excuse any unwarranted judgement, if there has even been any in the first place.

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#39

Post by asciilifeform » Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 8:57 PM UTC

reyu wrote: post #35

ahoyhere wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I never intend to move back to the US. I like to visit. And I'd like to not get arrested at the border and forcibly repatriated, if you get my drift.

Extradition is kind of a pain too.

Has anyone ever been extradited simply for failing to pay U.S. income tax while living permanently abroad, and having neglected to renounce citizenship?

Re: The Self-Employed Depression

#40

Post by ahoyhere » Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 10:36 AM UTC

asciilifeform wrote: post #39

reyu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extradition is kind of a pain too.

Has anyone ever been extradited simply for failing to pay U.S. income tax while living permanently abroad, and having neglected to renounce citizenship?

I highly doubt it. I think it's more of a "if you step on our shores, you're ours" situation.

But even tho I am far from being rich enough to be on their radar, better safe than sorry. Saving $50k/yr in taxes is a bad optimization if it lands your ass in jail.