One thing not mentioned in the article, "Renunciation of U.S. citizenship was free until July 2010, at which time a fee of $450 was established."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renunciation_of_citizenship#Uni...
Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
31–40 of 85 posts
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#32If you want to live abroad and pay no US taxes, shouldn't one also give up rights to any entitlement services from the US government during that period? Otherwise, US tax payers are subsidizing free riders. If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US? This would seem to create a moral hazard, as if you could find a tax shelte…
If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US?
You are NOT entitled and you will NOT draw jack from Social Security--unless you paid in for at least 10 years. Then, that is your money.
If you move to US and are dirt poor, I suppose you may get some state aid, medicaid etc but that's a basic right to anyone that lives there. It probably balances out as many will retire, say to Mexico, and not use those services.
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I read the article. It talks about Facta and then tries to link it to people complaining about how expensive it is to file tax returns, but the two aren't linked unless you weren't reporting your real income. Americans have always had to file taxes while living abroad. The tax laws have been extremely complicated for decades. Facta isn't changing that. FTA: "Fatca provisions impose no new obligations on US citizens l…
It became so complicated to do her tax return that she turned to professionals, at an annual cost of nearly $2,000 (£1,250), with the prospect of Fatca raising the price to $5,000. Also, fewer tax lawyers were taking on American clients, she says, and some banks were even turning away American money. I don't see any mention of tax-dodging in the paragraph above. Which part of paying $2000 (and maybe soon $5000) to fi…
See this is what I don't understand. Facta does not change tax law. It should have no bearing on the cost of having your taxes done. You already had to declare foreign bank accounts to the IRS, so really all the law is doing is getting them declared automatically. Now fewer tax lawyers certainly will raise costs, but that has nothing to do with Facta.
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#34Whoa, whoa, US can tell other countries' financial institutions to report to IRS "or else"? I think the world should be shelling DC, I mean, forget Iran and Syria, right?
Actually, according to the article, foreign banks and financial institutions are now avoiding US citizens as customers because of the complications it introduces. So if you have a US citizenship, banks abroad won't deal with you.
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
France was also trying to do that recently, since the government there spends way more than they can hope to "steal" from their citizens. They thought it was a good idea to try to tax citizens living abroad (on top of the taxes paid abroad). If they ever did that, I can tell you a number of French citizens living abroad would just drop their French passport without hesitation.
Taxation is not theft, it is lawful. The developed world is founded on taxes.
How much is considered lawful? 30%? 50%? 90%?
It would be lawful if I agreed to all of it. I do agree we need taxes, but in many cases, it's excessive and against my will (you can go to jail if you don't pay it).
The other problem is that there is no accountability.
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#36This has been the case for some time and has been getting worse year after year. It is pretty shameful the extent to which the US tries to attach itself to the income and wealth of people who are not even living in the country solely because they are American citizens. In some cases, compliance with US tax laws (even though not in the US) are in direct conflict with laws in jurisdictions where people actually reside.…
I live abroad, and US tax laws cause me huge problems...especially since the tax treaty with China is incompletely in a couple of places (e.g. if I go to the US on a biz trip). Let me educate you a bit:
> In some cases, compliance with US tax laws (even though not in the US) are in direct conflict with laws in jurisdictions where people actually reside.
This is why countries have tax treaties, to work these issues out (though there are some bugs, see above). If you don't earn that much, the ~$95k foreign income tax exemption is also very useful.
> In essence, a US citizen is indentured to the US state regardless of where they live.
Thankfully, I'm mostly an indentured servant to the CCP and every year I get to write a big fat +/- $0 on my US tax returns. But I'm just a worker bee.
> It is creating a growing amount of complications for US citizens that are not within US jurisdiction but which can be held criminally liable for not following US laws even when those laws are in conflict with local laws where they actually live.
What are you talking about? The only law I can think of: US citizens are not allowed to participate in corruption (by US law), while some countries require bribes to avoid sending you to jail. Very few laws affect us abroad, the only other ones I can think of relate to child rape and pornagraphy.
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taxation is not theft, it is lawful. The developed world is founded on taxes.
And war isn't murdering people? Just because something has the backing of a government doesn't change the definition of words. You can argue who is the owner of the money being taxed, but you can't say something is or isn't because it's lawful.
My ISP insists that I must allow them to steal my money on monthly basis or they would cut my Internet!
Taxes are not theft, but a membership fee. Its perks are roads, fire department, schools, laws and law enforcement, protection from foreign armies and basically keeping the society together.
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#38"Unlike other countries, Americans are taxed not only as residents of the US but also as citizens, wherever they live." Huh?? Just because you are a US citizen, you have to pay taxes to the US wherever you live? Is any other country in the world having such policies?
Yes, being a US citizen requires you to pay the US tax, even though you live in a different country, work in that country and already pay tax in that country. It's been like that for a long time already, pretty rediculous of you ask me!
Note that you often don't get double taxed. They just want the difference between what you would pay in the USA vs. what you actually pay in country B, after $97k that is. If you are in a country with higher taxes than the states, which is most of the world actually, you won't be paying anything more (just watch out for HK, Singapore, and Switzerland).
Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#39Re: Why are Americans giving up their citizenship?
#40If you want to live abroad and pay no US taxes, shouldn't one also give up rights to any entitlement services from the US government during that period? Otherwise, US tax payers are subsidizing free riders. If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US? This would seem to create a moral hazard, as if you could find a tax shelte…
If I'm a US citizen, but spend my whole life working in another country, should I be entitled to draw social security checks from the US? You are NOT entitled and you will NOT draw jack from Social Security--unless you paid in for at least 10 years. Then, that is your money. If you move to US and are dirt poor, I suppose you may get some state aid, medicaid etc but that's a basic right to anyone that lives there. It…
Social Security is not a savings account. Even if you paid in for 10 years, you can easily draw more than you put in.