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Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#31

Post by bfe »

Filligree wrote: post #30
madaxe wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or he means literally 3D-print structures using water, which will freeze in the Martian atmosphere to form water ice - which is actually a pretty great structural material if used appropriately.

Unfortunately, exposed ice will sublimate pretty quickly. You could possibly use it as a bulk structural material when covered, and certainly for radiation shielding.

You can also use water for holding your pressurized structures together: bolt some pipes to your structure, bury them, pour liquid water through the pipes and into the soil, let it freeze, and you've got anchors made of ice.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#32

Post by InclinedPlane »

startupfounder wrote: post #3

"If you think about a cubic foot of this dirt and you just heat it a little bit - a few hundred degrees - you'll actually get off about two pints of water - like two water bottles you'd take to the gym," Dr Leshin explained. This is huge for Mars exploration by humans. 1. We can send unmanned expeditions to stockpile large tanks of water. 2. This would allow us to literally 3D print structures on the surface and allo…

ALICE is unlikely to be the best idea for rocket fuel produced on Mars. We already know that it is easy to produce propellant on Mars using the sabatier reaction and the Martian atmosphere as the primary ingredient (to produce liquid methane and O2). Not only is this a high grade rocket propellant but also the vast majority of the mass comes from the atmosphere. Of the mass of the propellant only 1/4 of it would be methane and of that only 1/4 would be Hydrogen (1/16th of the total mass). This makes it feasible to ship over the Hydrogen feedstock from Earth and generate the remaining 94% of the mass of propellant using Martian resources.

However, the easier it is to get water on Mars the easier it is to produce propellant in this way. However, we already know that substantial amounts of water ice underlie most of the Martian surface, materials that are as much as half water by mass only a meter or so below ground. This new information only means that it will take much less equipment to get at small quantities of water nearer the surface.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#33

Post by jonnathanson »

warfangle wrote: post #20
startupfounder wrote: post #3

"If you think about a cubic foot of this dirt and you just heat it a little bit - a few hundred degrees - you'll actually get off about two pints of water - like two water bottles you'd take to the gym," Dr Leshin explained. This is huge for Mars exploration by humans. 1. We can send unmanned expeditions to stockpile large tanks of water. 2. This would allow us to literally 3D print structures on the surface and allo…

They also suggest that one of the main components is perchlorate -- which, if turned into lithium perchlorate can be used for oxygen generation, and if turned into ammonium perchlorate can be used for solid rocket fuel.

The perchlorate hypothesis seems to be getting a lot of confirming evidence:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130926143246.ht...

While the science dailies are pitching the perchlorate finding as a "setback" (because it complicates the search for organic molecules), it's indeed promising for fuel usage.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#34

Post by varjag »

xbryanx wrote: post #19
startupfounder wrote: post #3

"If you think about a cubic foot of this dirt and you just heat it a little bit - a few hundred degrees - you'll actually get off about two pints of water - like two water bottles you'd take to the gym," Dr Leshin explained. This is huge for Mars exploration by humans. 1. We can send unmanned expeditions to stockpile large tanks of water. 2. This would allow us to literally 3D print structures on the surface and allo…

Aluminium Nano-thermites like ALICE are certainly cool, and certainly scary. Could you make a explosive more powerful than small atomic bombs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite

My physics is rusty, but I don't think any chemical reaction can approach the energy yield of fission or fusion.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#35

Post by varjag »

madaxe wrote: post #29
narfquat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he is using 3D printing synonymously with on-site fabrication of components. Not quite the same, but similar.

Or he means literally 3D-print structures using water, which will freeze in the Martian atmosphere to form water ice - which is actually a pretty great structural material if used appropriately.

Molding would be more suitable here. The time to 3D print a piece is a cubic function of volume, making it suboptimal for larger structures.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#36

Post by zokier »

narfquat wrote: post #27
zokier wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2. This would allow us to literally 3D print structures on the surface and allow us to significantly decrease the amount of materials we need to transport to the surface in order to build a habitat. Could you explain the connection here? What does water have to do with 3D-printing?

I think he is using 3D printing synonymously with on-site fabrication of components. Not quite the same, but similar.

Even with that (ab)use of the term 3D printing, I don't see the connection of on-site fabrication and water.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#37

Post by madaxe »

Filligree wrote: post #30
madaxe wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or he means literally 3D-print structures using water, which will freeze in the Martian atmosphere to form water ice - which is actually a pretty great structural material if used appropriately.

Unfortunately, exposed ice will sublimate pretty quickly. You could possibly use it as a bulk structural material when covered, and certainly for radiation shielding.

Aye, true that. Well, cover it in mylar, and it was rads I was thinking of predominantly. You could potentially make something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete using martian topsoil.

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#38

Post by tocomment »

I have questions about this. Can anyone help?

How do they know the water is everywhere? How do they know it's not just in the one place they dug and nowhere else?

Why hasn't the water evaporated? Isn't Mars almost a vacuum?

Why didn't the water evaporate from the soil after being dug up but before being put in the oven?

Could there be large underground frozen aquifers?

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#39

Post by gexla »

> . This striking block was dubbed Jake Matijevic, in honour of a recently deceased Nasa engineer.

They are naming rocks. They haven't even stepped foot on Mars yet and they are already going space mad.

And what's so special about getting a rock named after you? I'm sure there are enough rocks out there that everyone can have their own rock. Why not name a canyon or mountain after him?

Re: Mars water surprise in Curiosity rover soil samples

#40

Post by sanxiyn »

gexla wrote: post #39

> . This striking block was dubbed Jake Matijevic, in honour of a recently deceased Nasa engineer. They are naming rocks. They haven't even stepped foot on Mars yet and they are already going space mad. And what's so special about getting a rock named after you? I'm sure there are enough rocks out there that everyone can have their own rock. Why not name a canyon or mountain after him?

There is a bureaucracy involved. To name a feature, you need approval from International Astronomical Union Working Gruop for Planetary System Nomenclature. No, I am not kidding.

http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/

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