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Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

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Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#31

Post by pndmnm »

baldfat wrote: post #26

This is only for one form of skin cancer. I think the word cancer really is used to broadly and most people believe that cancer = cancer when in fact cancers vary widely. Sarcoma cancer is so different than say Leukemia that one trial that help one has zero impact on the other. In cancer it is the scientific name that is so important to understand what is happening. I ask people what kind of cancer they have and they…

Exactly correct. A great quote I heard once is "asking a scientist when they'll find a cure for cancer is like asking a mathematician when they'll find a solution for equations."

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#33

Post by dnautics »

user24 wrote: post #5
jdmitch wrote: post #2

50 percent of mice treated with two doses of the vaccine...showed complete tumor regression. I would have thought clinical trials would require a higher success rate... is it only because it's the last resort and patients would otherwise die anyways?

I imagine that the success rate varies according to the disease. If it was a flu vaccine then it would be laughed out at 50%, but for cancer I'm guessing 50% is a mindblowingly awesome success rate.

unfortunately, 50% in mice is rather low for cancer even. You usually want to start out at 70-80% in mice for cancer. If you get 50% in humans that's a great success rate, but not in mice. The reason for this is that the mouse model is called a xenograft model, you take a human cancer and implant it into the mouse. Typically, you are running the experiment on mice implanted with the cell line that gave the best hit in your in vitro model, so it better do darned well, relatively speaking.

I could be wrong about this though, usually the xenograft is done in immunocompromised mice (because otherwise the mice would reject the human cancer line)... So there could be complicating factors.

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#35

Post by Volpe »

thelettere wrote: post #34

There already is a cancer vaccine. It's called "Don't eat industrialized crap". Cancer is virtually non-existent in tradition non-industrial tribes and societies. And yes many in those culture do grow just about as old as we do.

I think you are going to need to provide some citations.

Which tribes/societies? What is their cancer rate? What are they not consuming that we are? (who are we?)

Wasn't steve jobs a complete freak with food consumption? (i.e. he didn't eat industrialised crap)...

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#36

Post by dakrisht »

epistasis wrote: post #3

Unlike most vaccines, including the HPV vaccine meant to prevent cervical cancer, this is not prophylactic, it's not meant to prevent cancer. Rather, it's a therapy to get rid of cancer once you have it by targeting your immune system towards cancer cells. Many (most?) cancers have some degree of immune system involvement. In early stages of cancer, the immune system often attacks tumor cells. In later stages of canc…

"I would venture that we understand more of the immune system's complexity than any other system in the body"

NO - this is a completely and profoundly FALSE statement.

We have learned quite a bit about the immune system in the past decade or so but it is still one of the most mysterious systems in the entire body. The immune system is a black box from the standpoint of most clinicians today. It's an _incredibly_ overwhelming and complex system with dozens of interacting cell types and different molecules spewing into our bloodstream; with each of those cells containing tens of thousands of genes whose activity is dependent upon dozens of factors.

So it is far from being understood. But the research and technology is promising. Immunologists today still perform the same tests they did in the 1960s outside of advanced and experimental immune studies done at the university level.

Your generic explanation of cancers is also incredibly incorrect.

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#37

Post by epistasis »

dakrisht wrote: post #36
epistasis wrote: post #3

Unlike most vaccines, including the HPV vaccine meant to prevent cervical cancer, this is not prophylactic, it's not meant to prevent cancer. Rather, it's a therapy to get rid of cancer once you have it by targeting your immune system towards cancer cells. Many (most?) cancers have some degree of immune system involvement. In early stages of cancer, the immune system often attacks tumor cells. In later stages of canc…

"I would venture that we understand more of the immune system's complexity than any other system in the body" NO - this is a completely and profoundly FALSE statement. We have learned quite a bit about the immune system in the past decade or so but it is still one of the most mysterious systems in the entire body. The immune system is a black box from the standpoint of most clinicians today. It's an _incredibly_ over…

You seem to be mistaken, and responding to something I did not write. I did not say that we understand its complexity, I said that we understand more of it's complexity than any other body system. The depth and complexity of immunology as a field is evidence of that. My point was that despite having advanced our knowledge here more than in other parts of molecular biology, we still can't control it. What do see as incorrect in those statements?

Also if you don't know about immune involvement in cancers, I'd recommend catching up with the past decade. I pointed out two of the ten Hanahan & Weinberg hallmarks of cancer, so this isn't exactly old news.

http://download.bioon.com.cn/upload/201105/22131853_2957.pdf

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#38

Post by thelettere »

Volpe wrote: post #35
thelettere wrote: post #34

There already is a cancer vaccine. It's called "Don't eat industrialized crap". Cancer is virtually non-existent in tradition non-industrial tribes and societies. And yes many in those culture do grow just about as old as we do.

I think you are going to need to provide some citations. Which tribes/societies? What is their cancer rate? What are they not consuming that we are? (who are we?) Wasn't steve jobs a complete freak with food consumption? (i.e. he didn't eat industrialised crap)...

Two good referenced articles:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/cancer-among-i...

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/cancer-in-othe...

As far as what they're consuming - sugar, processed oils and processed grains are the most widespread aspects of the industrialized diet, and therefore the best suspects. Try finding a processed "food" product without either sugar or an industrialized oil.

Jobs only started experimenting with weird diets after he became an adult. Also, while industrialized crap is likely the primary culprit, other things contribute - sedentary lifestyle and lacking basic necessary nutrients (Jobs experimental diets are like nothing I've ever heard of any non-industrial tribe or society eat).

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#39

Post by thelettere »

Volpe wrote: post #35
thelettere wrote: post #34

There already is a cancer vaccine. It's called "Don't eat industrialized crap". Cancer is virtually non-existent in tradition non-industrial tribes and societies. And yes many in those culture do grow just about as old as we do.

I think you are going to need to provide some citations. Which tribes/societies? What is their cancer rate? What are they not consuming that we are? (who are we?) Wasn't steve jobs a complete freak with food consumption? (i.e. he didn't eat industrialised crap)...

More on Jobs:

http://www.bulletproofexec.com/low-carb-paleo-diets-vs-cance...

Best Cancer Book:

http://www.amazon.com/Anticancer-New-Way-Life-ebook/dp/B002Y...

Re: Cancer vaccine begins Phase I clinical trials

#40

Post by Volpe »

thelettere wrote: post #38
Volpe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are going to need to provide some citations. Which tribes/societies? What is their cancer rate? What are they not consuming that we are? (who are we?) Wasn't steve jobs a complete freak with food consumption? (i.e. he didn't eat industrialised crap)...

Two good referenced articles: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/cancer-among-i... http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/07/cancer-in-othe... As far as what they're consuming - sugar, processed oils and processed grains are the most widespread aspects of the industrialized diet, and therefore the best suspects. Try finding a processed "food" product without either sugar or an industrialized oil. Jobs…

That's a blog, from 2008, with no citations itself, and no claim of original research. So essentially it's opinion. It is confusing correlation with causation. Westernisation brought "cancer diagnosis" with it. So of course cancer rates increased, because before they "just died", then they "died of cancer". The rate of cancer didn't change, the rate of diagnosed cancer did.

Your body needs sugar (through various sources like carbs, or protein)... so sure if you cutout sugar, you won't get cancer (because you will die of malnutrition).

I'm not sure what "industrialised oil" is... how does it differ from regular oil? What about it in particular that makes it carcinogenic?

Jobs also didn't have cancer until he was an adult... are you suggesting he had some how set his body up into a condition ripe for cancer to develop? That implies that if you've ever tried "industrialized food" (in your entire life) it's already over for you, so don't worry about it.

What about children born with cancer? Is that because of their mothers diet (or their mothers diet when their mother was a child herself)? Simply by following your reasoning I've just ruled out a HUGE proportion of the population who don't have to worry, because the damage is already done.

Do you have any academic sources on the subject?

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