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Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

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Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#31

Post by chrismonsanto »

__--__ wrote: post #17
routelastresort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... or switch back to Linux, and just download everything you need, without encumbrances like this. I recently switched back on all of my OSX and Windows machine, and it feels great. Only through years of contributions to open source projects, and hanging my head in shame can I ever be redeemed. Oh, and Steam is only going to get better!

I still haven't found a linux distro that doesn't eventually resort to me fudging with xrandr for a week trying to get multiple monitors working correctly. Granted, this was 3 years ago. Have any linux distros solved the problem of configuring multiple monitors using a gui yet?

I use two monitors with an nVidia card, and it just works. You can configure stuff through nVidia's GUI application, if you want to.

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#33

Post by gojomo »

timeuser wrote: post #25
gojomo wrote: post #19

It'd be ugly and put other burdens on the pricing strategy and support permutations, but perhaps app-makers so trapped could approximate their desired result via: (1) offer a reduced-functionality "version N" to everyone, but for the desired 'upgrade' price. (Essentially, this might only have the features of the prior N-1 version.) (2) offer an in-app purchase unlocking full/pro features, priced at the delta between…

How do you propose accomplishing (3) that isn't a difficult confusing mess for users and verifies they are indeed an owner of the n-1 version?

The prior version creates a unique proof-of-ownership code (perhaps on request, after consulting the vendor's server).

That code is either cut & pasted, or custom-URL-handler'ed, over to the new install, unlocking the same features as an in-app-purchase. (Or maybe there's a bounce through Safari, somehow leveraging its offer-to-launch-or-install functionality to minimize the steps, or through the vendor's own servers keyed by opt-in email address. Lots of possibilities, really.)

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#34

Post by timeuser »

jacalata wrote: post #29
timeuser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose accomplishing (3) that isn't a difficult confusing mess for users and verifies they are indeed an owner of the n-1 version?

If you planned ahead, you could keep a version log somewhere inside the software showing which versions they'd had installed. Or, you could have each new version installed 'phone home', maybe ask users to 'register now for free/cheap upgrades later!'. All of them have drawbacks, but would get a significant chunk of the desired experience.

The drawbacks are pretty significant. A lot of users really aren't that savvy or motivated to register ahead or deal with some complicated upgrade process. If you have an app that's been in the store for a while it's even more problematic since more users have old app versions. Anyone that gets a new device and wants to install the upgraded app would have to install the old app version or go through some other odd process if they want to activate the upgrade. Also it seems likely Apple won't allow these upgrade schemes any more than they are allowing Omni to do upgrades around the App Store.

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#35

Post by dripton »

__--__ wrote: post #17
routelastresort wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... or switch back to Linux, and just download everything you need, without encumbrances like this. I recently switched back on all of my OSX and Windows machine, and it feels great. Only through years of contributions to open source projects, and hanging my head in shame can I ever be redeemed. Oh, and Steam is only going to get better!

I still haven't found a linux distro that doesn't eventually resort to me fudging with xrandr for a week trying to get multiple monitors working correctly. Granted, this was 3 years ago. Have any linux distros solved the problem of configuring multiple monitors using a gui yet?

My personal experience over the last couple of years:

I ran Gentoo for years, and my experience was similar to yours. I could get things to work but it took a lot of frustrating trial and error, and then periodically a version upgrade would break everything and I'd get to start over. About a year and a half ago I finally got sick of it and installed Kubuntu.

Kubuntu 12.04 + 2 monitors + AMD proprietary drivers = you get to choose between accelerated OpenGL and multiple monitor support. You can't have both at the same time. (At least I couldn't, with the video card and driver versions I had 6 months ago. I spent many hours trying, then remembered I have more money than time and bought a $90 Nvidia card.)

Kubuntu 12.04 + 2 monitors + Nvidia proprietary drivers = easy. The GUI worked, first try, no problems. The only goofy thing was that my left monitor showed up on the right side, giving me a choice between physically moving the monitors or changing the default positions in the GUI. I changed the defaults in the GUI.

Also, on my former work machine, Kubuntu 11.04 and 12.04 + 2 Nvidia cards + 3 monitors = easy. (Some cow-orkers had 2 Nvidia cards and 4 monitors, also easy.)

I haven't tried newer versions of Kubuntu on a multi-monitor box, so it's possible (but not likely) they've gone backwards.

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#36

Post by timeuser »

gojomo wrote: post #33
timeuser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose accomplishing (3) that isn't a difficult confusing mess for users and verifies they are indeed an owner of the n-1 version?

The prior version creates a unique proof-of-ownership code (perhaps on request, after consulting the vendor's server). That code is either cut & pasted, or custom-URL-handler'ed, over to the new install, unlocking the same features as an in-app-purchase. (Or maybe there's a bounce through Safari, somehow leveraging its offer-to-launch-or-install functionality to minimize the steps, or through the vendor's own servers…

As I said in my other response it seems likely Apple won't allow these upgrade schemes any more than they are allowing Omni to do upgrades around the App Store. Why would they block what Omni was doing entirely outside of the App Store and allow apps distributed through the App Store to accomplish something similar?

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#37

Post by dripton »

eropple wrote: post #30
rurounijones wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two nVidia cards in SLI powering 3 monitors. Setup was pretty simple using the binary nVidia drivers on Kubuntu, 0 config file wrangling. Now, having those three monitors in non-uniform geometries is something I wouldn't even consider tackling [EDIT] Kubuntu 12.04 All monitors in a single X Session and automatic application window sizing works as you would expect in KDE (i.e. Maximising a window maximises to t…

Can you get them all in the same X session? I've never tried SLI, I generally just upgrade to a beefier main card and use a second card to drive extra monitors. I have an HD6970 and an HD6450 on 4 monitors that work great under OS X (Hackintosh'd) and Windows and things go extremely sideways under Ubuntu.

I had 3 monitors / 2 Nvidia cards working fine in Kubuntu 11.04 and 12.04. All one X session. It was easy. But that was with uniform geometry. (I had 3 identical monitors.) Haven't tried non-uniform.

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#38

Post by pudquick »

stinky613 wrote: post #5
jeena wrote: post #4

It was so obvious when I read about it here http://brooksreview.net/2013/08/omnikeymaster-upgrade-pricin... just the other day. Why would Apple build a distribution channel and then let people upgrade apps outside of it without getting their cut? I think this was obvious for the Omni guys too, they just wanted this problem to get some publicity.

They kind of have to because the App Store doesn't allow paid upgrades. There's no way to offer two prices (upgrade price and full retail price) for an app. EDIT: The in-between choice would be moving to SaaS (see Adobe), but that's another discussion entirely

As a counterpoint, the App Store also implicitly encourages an "infinite major versions updates" pricing model vs. minor point release updates = free, major = paid upgrade.

In order to do something like that in the App Store, you have to make your next major version listed as a completely separate app ID. Almost no one does this because everyone in the App Store ecosystem expects new version = hit Update All - and the few times I've seen this done, it resulted in nothing but negative App Store reviews.

By not providing anything other than a single purchase price, Apple has not just discouraged the upgrade price model - they've discouraged everything but a one-time flat price or admitting to the customers that they're truly a SaaS model (by forcing the developer to do it as an in-app subscription purchase).

I prefer this simplicity.

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#39

Post by gojomo »

timeuser wrote: post #36
gojomo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prior version creates a unique proof-of-ownership code (perhaps on request, after consulting the vendor's server). That code is either cut & pasted, or custom-URL-handler'ed, over to the new install, unlocking the same features as an in-app-purchase. (Or maybe there's a bounce through Safari, somehow leveraging its offer-to-launch-or-install functionality to minimize the steps, or through the vendor's own servers…

As I said in my other response it seems likely Apple won't allow these upgrade schemes any more than they are allowing Omni to do upgrades around the App Store. Why would they block what Omni was doing entirely outside of the App Store and allow apps distributed through the App Store to accomplish something similar?

Because outside the App Store, Apple doesn't get their cut, and external payments or software-deliveries don't bind people to the habit of App Store purchases and in-app purchases.

With this pseudo-upgrade process, even as convoluted as it is, it all remains inside Apple's system.

I suppose the key question is: does Apple allow promotions that give some people the same effect as in-app purchases, while others still have to make the paid purchase? (I think they do.) I could see Apple objecting if the feature-turn-on is in any way a reward for outside-of-App-Store valuable behavior - that's circumventing Apple's role.

But if it's an extra bonus for an earlier in-App-Store action – the N-1 version purchase – Apple's role hasn't been circumvented. In a way, it's been reinforced. So the same logic driving the prior veto wouldn't apply.

Re: Update – We’re unable to offer upgrade pricing for Mac App Store purchases

#40

Post by [deleted] »

signed0 wrote: post #16
yapcguy wrote: post #2

"We are not allowed to distribute updates through other channels to apps which were purchased from the App Store." The solution is simple. All Mac developers should stop selling through the App Store, regain control of the distribution channel, and leave the Mac App Store barren of quality applications. Until Mac developers have leverage, Apple will continue taking their 30% cut and enforcing rules which suit them an…

You don't have to wait for Mavericks, it has already happened. Apps that are sold through the App Store can not make use of the the media keys on Apple keyboards, which is why VLC can use them and other apps can't. Edit: other than iTunes

[deleted]
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