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Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#31

Post by rdl »

Monotoko wrote: post #30
gizmo686 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say zero. Child pornagraphy and copyright infringement are still censored. (Admitadly, most copyright infringement is self sensored to assure DMCA compliance, but I still count that).

Child pornography makes sense though, I can't see any civilised society ever being okay with that because of the permanent harm it brings to those involved. The ban has been in place since before the Internet, and thus it was brought to the Internet too. There needs to be rules, but they need to be sensible and not limit speech. The other side of that coin though is the laws against copyrighted material, most people…

Child pornography doesn't have a bright line, though. I don't think 16/18/21 are particularly different (I.e. societies could choose any of those). There still seems to be debate around the edges of simulated, simulated using real photos of non sexual underage people, self pics to other minors, etc. And IMO the bigger issue of knowing possession vs. it being totally radioactive.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#32

Post by gizmo686 »

Monotoko wrote: post #30
gizmo686 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say zero. Child pornagraphy and copyright infringement are still censored. (Admitadly, most copyright infringement is self sensored to assure DMCA compliance, but I still count that).

Child pornography makes sense though, I can't see any civilised society ever being okay with that because of the permanent harm it brings to those involved. The ban has been in place since before the Internet, and thus it was brought to the Internet too. There needs to be rules, but they need to be sensible and not limit speech. The other side of that coin though is the laws against copyrighted material, most people…

I do not want to enter into a discussion about the morality of child porn. However, regardless of you view on that, it is still a form of speech. US legal precedent explicitly allows for the limitations of speech under specific circumstances (such as intent and likelyhood to incite a crime, and malice with a reckless disregard to the truth). What is important to remember is that wheather we are censoring terrorist how-tos, child-porn, or political opponents we are still limiting speach.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#33

Post by gizmo686 »

rdl wrote: post #31
Monotoko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Child pornography makes sense though, I can't see any civilised society ever being okay with that because of the permanent harm it brings to those involved. The ban has been in place since before the Internet, and thus it was brought to the Internet too. There needs to be rules, but they need to be sensible and not limit speech. The other side of that coin though is the laws against copyrighted material, most people…

Child pornography doesn't have a bright line, though. I don't think 16/18/21 are particularly different (I.e. societies could choose any of those). There still seems to be debate around the edges of simulated, simulated using real photos of non sexual underage people, self pics to other minors, etc. And IMO the bigger issue of knowing possession vs. it being totally radioactive.

>There still seems to be debate around the edges of simulated

Not just the edges. I've seen porn sites self censor obvious fictional porn depicting children, because of concern over hosting child porn.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#34

Post by blackcat »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #25
alextingle wrote: post #12

> Last month the US embassy in Hanoi said it was "deeply concerned by the decree's provisions", arguing that "fundamental freedoms apply online just as they do offline". My hypocrisy-meter just broke.

The US doesn't block YouTube, Facebook, blogspot, wordpress, imgr...uhm...they don't block anything that I know of.

Some people need to feel America isn't free or else how do you explain why they are not free. It has to because of America or else they are responsible for their own country.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#35

Post by seanmcdirmid »

blackcat wrote: post #34
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't block YouTube, Facebook, blogspot, wordpress, imgr...uhm...they don't block anything that I know of.

Some people need to feel America isn't free or else how do you explain why they are not free. It has to because of America or else they are responsible for their own country.

These people do not live behind the GFW and don't understand what real unfreedom is. I agree the USA should avoid becoming unfree, but we aren't even close yet.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#36

Post by xuki »

jawngee wrote: post #23
state wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to look up the "9X generation". For those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9X_Generation

There's a few things going on here that I think are going to have serious influence on the next 10 years. First, the 9X kids, as I mentioned before, want what the rest of the world already has. They've had a taste and I don't think they are willing to concede. Second, a lot of Viet Kieu (Vietnamese from abroad) are returning and they have a lot of money. They're going to also want to maintain some semblance of what t…

You would be naive to think they don't have the capability to block Facebook (or any site, for that matter).

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#37

Post by shirkey »

jawngee wrote: post #23
state wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to look up the "9X generation". For those interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9X_Generation

There's a few things going on here that I think are going to have serious influence on the next 10 years. First, the 9X kids, as I mentioned before, want what the rest of the world already has. They've had a taste and I don't think they are willing to concede. Second, a lot of Viet Kieu (Vietnamese from abroad) are returning and they have a lot of money. They're going to also want to maintain some semblance of what t…

By what measure is Vietnam beating Indonesia?

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#38

Post by mpyne »

wyager wrote: post #28
jawngee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tyranny is a bit overstated.

Said people in every historical state that was slowly sliding towards despotism.

But on the other hand, making the U.S. congruent to every despotic state tends to cheapen the sacrifice of those who actually had to live (and die) under those despots, instead of sipping a venti espresso at Starbucks while typing away on their MacBook Pro.

Re: Vietnam Internet restrictions come into effect

#39

Post by veidr »

mpyne wrote: post #38
wyager wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said people in every historical state that was slowly sliding towards despotism.

But on the other hand, making the U.S. congruent to every despotic state tends to cheapen the sacrifice of those who actually had to live (and die) under those despots, instead of sipping a venti espresso at Starbucks while typing away on their MacBook Pro.

Some people sip espressos in North Korea, too.

Meanwhile, we (Americans) have more people living in cages than North Korea, China, Iran, and Vietnam combined. Most of them citizens, incarcerated after being subjected to extremely dubious trials for crimes related to drugs -- and whoops, look at today's latest headline: Drug Agents Use Vast Phone Trove Eclipsing N.S.A.’s

Relatively free states slide morph into corrupt police states precisely when the people sipping coffee with their luxury computers refuse to notice it happening.

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