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Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

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Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#31

Post by frozenport »

jacquesm wrote: post #23

"In Hong Kong, Rich Live In Mountain Mansions And Poor Live In Cages" http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-rich-live-in-mansio... I think it wouldn't be too far out to guess that the eventual end of planet earth is to be covered with structures like in the article posted and people living in it along the lines of the one linked here. How many people could you cram in like that? Hope you like to eat fish.

First, Don't take such a dim view! There is no reason why the buildings can't be twice as high and twice as roomy.

Secondly, We be living off soylent

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#32

Post by cmsmith »

spacehunt wrote: post #12
jamesaguilar wrote: post #8

Also, let's face it. It's very difficult to reason about the interior of a building from pictures of its exterior. Who knows how nice these apartments are? I grant that many of them are not probably up to the standards Americans are used to, but the mildew from the tropical climate and various other factors conspire to make things look worse than they are, I bet.

And most of them have a choice of multiple ISPs offering 1Gbps FTTH for about US$20-40 a month...

Of course they do. The cost to run fiber to a building is largely independent of the number of units in the building. So it makes perfect sense that higher housing density leads to lower costs and higher speeds.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#33

Post by briandon »

lisper wrote: post #7

> After years of living in a small house in Hong Kong’s countryside... Hong Kong has countryside?!?

The countryside consists of the hilliest bits, which the government and developers pretend that they can't build on (Don't look here or there at the hilltops with towering apartment blocks perched on them, it'll spoil your suspension of disbelief) and the flat spots which the government hasn't yet chosen to build a "new town" (i.e. insta-city) on and which tend to be non-trivial to reach since mass transit hasn't been extended that far since the government hasn't yet chosen to build a "new town" there since...

What's happened is that a small number of wealthy families have basically completely captured HK and "real estate" accounts for a huge chunk of the local economy. HK residents and, increasingly, PRC citizens seeking a way to smuggle ill-gotten money out of the PRC proper park their money in the form of tiny cement apartments which they have no particular need to rent out to anyone since there's a prolonged property tax holiday in effect.

The value of tiny cement apartments only stays high so long as there's the appearance of scarcity of tiny cement apartments. This requires the apparent scarcity of land.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#34

Post by briandon »

frozenport wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #23

"In Hong Kong, Rich Live In Mountain Mansions And Poor Live In Cages" http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-rich-live-in-mansio... I think it wouldn't be too far out to guess that the eventual end of planet earth is to be covered with structures like in the article posted and people living in it along the lines of the one linked here. How many people could you cram in like that? Hope you like to eat fish.

First, Don't take such a dim view! There is no reason why the buildings can't be twice as high and twice as roomy. Secondly, We be living off soylent

Are (many of) the apartments privately owned in this scenario?

If so, then everyone who has already bought an apartment and everyone who stands to inherit such an apartment will "lose" money or the opportunity to convert their real estate into money in the future if newer apartments are more spacious or nicer in any obvious way.

Real estate developers will have less difficulty selling the units that they build right now if buyers are confident that future apartments will not be nicer (and hence more desirable to future buyers) than the apartments that you're trying to fob off on them today.

It's a feedback mechanism that, unchecked, leads to what you find in HK: progressively slightly smaller, more unpleasant apartments being built with every passing year.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#35

Post by kamaal »

briandon wrote: post #29
jmduke wrote: post #4

I used to -- and still do, to some effect -- fetishize living in a highrise. I was a suburban kid who grew up in a boring (and, in retrospect, wonderful) house surrounded by other boring houses -- I watched Seinfeld and Frasier, and loved the idea of living in an apartment complex, where prospective friends and plotlines were only yards and floors away. Looking at Michael's pictures, I'm struck with a particular sens…

Spacehunt and gotrecruit are on the money. Even if you spend 3-4x more than the average household's entire monthly income so that you live in a flat that's almost got half as much usable space as a typical suburban home in, for example, the US, you've got your neighbors to contend with. The exorbitant rent or mortgage that you're paying only buys you a bit of extra elbow room (likely translated into more bedrooms and…

My dad always tells me any apartments look glossy only in their first year of construction. After that, things start to degrade pretty quickly. Start with paint, then window glasses and then leaks and then what not. All the best trying to get every one to pay up to fix the issues related to the general apartment building. It never happens.

Unless you are living in a super luxury apartment, I see high rise residential buildings as nothing more than modern day slums and ghettos.

The biggest annoyances you come across are the ones related to privacy and hygiene.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#36

Post by hoi »

One of the reasons for such high housing costs is the influx of investment money. For example, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hills apartment complex is mostly empty. Most of the houses bought up by rich mainlanders looking to park their money somewhere that would still grow their investment.

Secondly, there are cheaper alternatives. Living in teh New Territories can be tremendously more cash efficient. I live in the hills in a house, 2 floors, 3 bedroom, with a garden, and pay less than $2500 USD per month.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#37

Post by briandon »

doctorstupid wrote: post #26

There is a fortunate side effect to living in such tiny spaces. Having spent a couple of years living in what could be considered submariner sized dwellings, I found that the only thing I used the spaces for was sleeping. When one lives in a tiny, depressing hole, one tends to maximise the time spent out in the world doing things and socializing. With all of that activity I lost weight too. There is a tendency to bea…

When you were living in a cozy apartment, did it happen to be in a city where free, public conveniences (like greenery, shaded benches, water fountains, etc.) were rare to nonexistent, situated in a region where the climate was extremely hot and humid year-round?

I ask because I live in such a city and socializing seems to take the form (for the affluent) of, for example, sweaty people buying overpriced iced coffees so that they have an excuse to sit in an air conditioned cafe and (for the less well-off) of people, especially the elderly, sitting on ledges, steps, the rare bench or two, etc. in air conditioned shopping malls, libraries, and government buildings all day.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#38

Post by briandon »

kamaal wrote: post #35
briandon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spacehunt and gotrecruit are on the money. Even if you spend 3-4x more than the average household's entire monthly income so that you live in a flat that's almost got half as much usable space as a typical suburban home in, for example, the US, you've got your neighbors to contend with. The exorbitant rent or mortgage that you're paying only buys you a bit of extra elbow room (likely translated into more bedrooms and…

My dad always tells me any apartments look glossy only in their first year of construction. After that, things start to degrade pretty quickly. Start with paint, then window glasses and then leaks and then what not. All the best trying to get every one to pay up to fix the issues related to the general apartment building. It never happens. Unless you are living in a super luxury apartment, I see high rise residential…

Your father is wise.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#39

Post by briandon »

hoi wrote: post #36

One of the reasons for such high housing costs is the influx of investment money. For example, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beverly_Hills apartment complex is mostly empty. Most of the houses bought up by rich mainlanders looking to park their money somewhere that would still grow their investment. Secondly, there are cheaper alternatives. Living in teh New Territories can be tremendously more cash efficient…

Totally correct.

Now, if you told HN the net floor area of your $USD 2.5k-a-month village house and the dimensions of your 3 bedrooms, you'd probably shock many posters here.

Re: Hong Kong’s Massive High-Rise Neighborhoods

#40

Post by noir_lord »

paxswill wrote: post #16

I watched Dredd on Netflix a few days ago, and I'm struck by how similar these apartments and the blocks in the movie look.

The set design and sense of claustrophobia induced by Dredd was brilliant.

They even had accurate looking graffiti.

It was an exceptionally well designed set.

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