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How to trap a whistleblower

salon.com

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Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#31

Post by graycat »

My guess is that much of Obama's political strategy is mostly just to pretend. So, there he sees a public issue and says something, just something, just says it, to defuse the issue and, then, counts on (1) the mainstream media not getting into the details of what is wrong with the fantasy statement, (2) the voters being busy with other things, and (3) soon something else in the headlines.

Except for the fantasy statements, Obama is careful about actually doing anything. He's good at making sure that whatever happens, he is not held to blame.

But he does actually do some things: He pushed 'clean, green, pure, pristine, 100% all-natural energy' and got a lot of campaign contributions. He has pushed ObamaCare but seems to want to 'push' its implementation out past the end of his second term (fine with me). So, he wants ObamaCare as fantasy but not as actual implementation. He does some little things in Syria, e.g., supposedly trained about 20 rebels in how to use some Russian missiles; so, he gets to claim to support 'fighting for freedom' or some such in Syria without actually doing much or much he could get blamed for. He asks the DoD to give him options for doing more in Syria, no doubt already knowing that all the options would be high on cost and low on effectiveness and that he won't approve any of the options; but just by making public that he asked for the options he will please some voters. After one of the high school shootings, he visited the site and said he was going to 'get the guns' or some such. Of course the Second Amendment and the NRA are still there, along with a lot of gun owners in rural and Western states. But the high school shootings are out of the headlines now. We could go on and on this way.

For the NSA leak issue, he sees right away that a lot of voters are concerned about the Fourth Amendment and so makes statements, like the one to Leno, that he is against 'over reaching government' or some such. But as the Salon article explained in detail, what Obama said to Leno was just nonsense. But such nonsense is about all Obama needs because only a tiny fraction of the voters will get as deep as the Salon article, and the MSM mostly won't go there. So, superficial nonsense is enough.

Maybe it's a smart strategy. There is a danger that once people catch on that mostly he's just passing out fantasy nonsense no one should take seriously, too many voters will get pissed. Maybe. Maybe not.

At least he's not actually doing much, and money he doesn't spend isn't wasted and projects he doesn't do aren't failures. We've got plenty of government and in total don't really need more. So in a major sense, Obama can get by without doing very much. Actually I wish that at times W had done less.

There is a risk if the country actually needs a president; in the meanwhile it's okay for him to spout fantasy nonsense on Leno and work on his golf game and jump shot.

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#32

Post by Datsundere »

pcunite wrote: post #5

Obama could have been special. The symbol, the icon for an America forgiven of its past and now authoring hope for future people of all races. Perhaps it was power that corrupted him or maybe it was his close advisors that stymied his original purer motives. I remember feeling so proud that we had a black President. I knew he was human, I know that skin color does not matter, but it was hard to not hope that given wh…

I suggest you watch lesterland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw2z9lV3W1g

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#33

Post by zzzeek »

crusso wrote: post #18
pcunite wrote: post #5

Obama could have been special. The symbol, the icon for an America forgiven of its past and now authoring hope for future people of all races. Perhaps it was power that corrupted him or maybe it was his close advisors that stymied his original purer motives. I remember feeling so proud that we had a black President. I knew he was human, I know that skin color does not matter, but it was hard to not hope that given wh…

I'm all for welcoming more people to the Don't Trust Obama club, but let's be honest here. Many of us saw his flaws long before this NSA scandal, which he and his minions now lump in with the set of "phony scandals". Voting for someone because of their race is every damned bit as bad as voting against someone because of their race. Maybe you folks who are surprised by the recent change in your attitude toward our Pre…

the alternative was mccain/palin. In the primaries, Hillary was the alternative. Second time around it was Romney. None of these candidates would have had any substantive differences on these particular issues and on almost every other issue would have been far worse. Single issue voting is just as naive as believing rhetoric at face value.

we absolutely need to protest Obama's actions in this area but as far as voting differently at the presidential level, unless we can radically change our voting system to realistically support 3rd party candidates, presidential politics isn't going to change much.

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#34

Post by mikeash »

tjoff wrote: post #29
toble wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misled is a political euphemism for lied. Politics is full of that sort of indirect language.

Well, reporting of politics shouldn't necessarily be politics. There is no reason to stoop to the low level of politicians when you call them on their bullshit.

Unfortunately, there are lots of reasons to stoop to their level, which is why all the major media do it.

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#35

Post by msg »

enraged_camel wrote: post #10

"Misled" the public? No. He lied to the public.

I think it is because "lie" implies a falsehood you could disprove, say in court. "Misled" implies a judgment that the president told a technical truth that he intended to be misleading. It could get confusing if you said he "lied", then he showed you how, technically, what he said was true. Falling back to a weaker "misled" at that point would take a lot of air out of the argument.

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#36

Post by crusso »

zzzeek wrote: post #33
crusso wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for welcoming more people to the Don't Trust Obama club, but let's be honest here. Many of us saw his flaws long before this NSA scandal, which he and his minions now lump in with the set of "phony scandals". Voting for someone because of their race is every damned bit as bad as voting against someone because of their race. Maybe you folks who are surprised by the recent change in your attitude toward our Pre…

the alternative was mccain/palin. In the primaries, Hillary was the alternative. Second time around it was Romney. None of these candidates would have had any substantive differences on these particular issues and on almost every other issue would have been far worse. Single issue voting is just as naive as believing rhetoric at face value. we absolutely need to protest Obama's actions in this area but as far as voti…

Of that entire group you just mentioned, the most divisive class warfare big government statist was Obama.

At least if McCain had been elected then we would have had opposition party contention between the executive and legislative branches.

At least with a Republican in office, the media would have been more likely to do its job by asking tougher questions and analyzing rather than fawning and adulating.

Before all that, though, maybe people should get involved earlier in the process and not let the media, the party leaders, and Saturday Night Live pick their candidates for them?

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#37

Post by ihsw »

coldcode wrote: post #23

Sad to say the old joke "How do you know if a politician is lying? Their lips are moving" is no longer funny. The even sadder thing is none of them seems to remembers the story of the boy who cried wolf. You know someday the president might tell us the truth but we won't be able to tell.

Lying implies intentional maliciousness, which is pure speculation. It stands to reason that our elected representatives are simply puppets -- what they say and do are controlled by others.

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#38

Post by mikeash »

zzzeek wrote: post #33
crusso wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for welcoming more people to the Don't Trust Obama club, but let's be honest here. Many of us saw his flaws long before this NSA scandal, which he and his minions now lump in with the set of "phony scandals". Voting for someone because of their race is every damned bit as bad as voting against someone because of their race. Maybe you folks who are surprised by the recent change in your attitude toward our Pre…

the alternative was mccain/palin. In the primaries, Hillary was the alternative. Second time around it was Romney. None of these candidates would have had any substantive differences on these particular issues and on almost every other issue would have been far worse. Single issue voting is just as naive as believing rhetoric at face value. we absolutely need to protest Obama's actions in this area but as far as voti…

Even with a changed voting system, I don't think it's going to change much.

The reality is that the average American is frightened of terrorism and wants the government to protect them. The average American believes in "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." The average American is still in a Cold War mindset and thinks that we need a massive military and intelligence apparatus to avoid being invaded and conquered.

The conversation in the tech community has centered around the system and the process, making the implicit assumption that the American public generally agrees with us that these acts are bad, and they're being foisted upon us without our consent by an out-of-control government. The reality, as far as I can tell, is that the American public does not generally agree with the tech community on these issues, and that we've ended up with these massive spying and anti-terror programs because that is the government the American public wants.

I firmly believe that our efforts should be directed toward convincing the public at large of our positions. If accomplished, the government will follow. The system is not (yet) that broken.

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#39

Post by lazyjones »

toble wrote: post #16
enraged_camel wrote: post #10

"Misled" the public? No. He lied to the public.

Misled is a political euphemism for lied. Politics is full of that sort of indirect language.

> Politics is full of that sort of indirect language.

Politics may be full of that sort of language, but why are media? This is not North Korea where journalists have to fear punishment for insulting the supreme leader. Or is it?

Re: How to trap a whistleblower

#40

Post by [deleted] »

pcunite wrote: post #5

Obama could have been special. The symbol, the icon for an America forgiven of its past and now authoring hope for future people of all races. Perhaps it was power that corrupted him or maybe it was his close advisors that stymied his original purer motives. I remember feeling so proud that we had a black President. I knew he was human, I know that skin color does not matter, but it was hard to not hope that given wh…

[deleted]
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