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Mean Stack

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Re: Mean Stack

#31

Post by PommeDeTerre »

cnlwsu wrote: post #8
cuttooth wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript "developers" feel the need to not use any other language than JavaScript, so they decided to shove it into as many unnecessary places as possible, even if their code more frequently ends up being an unmaintainable mess with no noticeable performance gains.

I think very few javascript developers only know javascript. This some kind of late 90s C++ elitism or sarcasm?

No, I think it's just the unfortunate reality.

The problem with your argument is that those who know programming languages other than JavaScript end up seeing its flaws extremely clearly. Such people won't willingly subject themselves to something that is so inherently broken, especially given that they're aware of the alternatives. Many would feel quite ashamed to associate themselves with it in any professional manner.

Re: Mean Stack

#33

Post by outside2344 »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #31
cnlwsu wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think very few javascript developers only know javascript. This some kind of late 90s C++ elitism or sarcasm?

No, I think it's just the unfortunate reality. The problem with your argument is that those who know programming languages other than JavaScript end up seeing its flaws extremely clearly. Such people won't willingly subject themselves to something that is so inherently broken, especially given that they're aware of the alternatives. Many would feel quite ashamed to associate themselves with it in any professional man…

Have you tried development with node.js and in particular npm (node package manager)?

I used to have the same thoughts about JavaScript. It really is a new world with these two things - and that is coming from a Ruby background.

Re: Mean Stack

#34

Post by outside2344 »

veemjeem wrote: post #25
wasd wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that makes sense but do most people who use node.js use mongo in production or just as a scaffolding tool?

Who the heck just uses mongo as a scaffolding tool? I don't know anyone who does that.

what he meant (i think) is use MongoDB in a lean manner - which is to say, try to get something off the ground, and if it takes off, switch to the most appropriate DB then (which might be Mongo).

I think this is the killer use of Mongo IMO.

Re: Mean Stack

#35

Post by PommeDeTerre »

adeaver wrote: post #27
cuttooth wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript "developers" feel the need to not use any other language than JavaScript, so they decided to shove it into as many unnecessary places as possible, even if their code more frequently ends up being an unmaintainable mess with no noticeable performance gains.

You are so right. Why try new things and test new ideas. Everything we have is perfect as it is! No need for a car, walking will get you there! We don't need moving pictures, books are fine! Do you even know anyone that works in Javascript? I happen to like JS but pull out PHP or Python or whatever I need to get the job done when I have to. And I'm not an exception.

I've seen your flawed argument used more and more often around here lately. It's pretty disappointing to see.

Somebody speaking out against deeply broken technologies or bad ideas that have received a lot of hype lately does not mean that such a person "hates progress" or is "resistant to change" or any utter nonsense like that.

Likewise, adopting so-called "new ideas" or "new technologies" does not necessarily mean that real progress is actually being made. JavaScript and NoSQL, for example, are generally regressions in most respects, even relative to 1990s- or 1980s-era technologies.

True progress happens when we move beyond our current abilities. It is not progress in any sense when we start using inferior programming languages or databases, for example.

Re: Mean Stack

#36

Post by trimbo »

aroman wrote: post #23
alanh wrote: post #13

I’m not a NoSQL expert, but everyone I know who is considers Mongo a joke in production. And I would never use Angular in production apps (“painfully slow” is reason enough but I have ideological differences as well). That makes saying “no” to this stack easy.

Does "everyone you know" have recent experience running Mongo in production? Because I have, and from my perspective calling it "a joke" is borderline trolling. I'm not trying to be hostile, but you've got to understand that Mongo is most certainly not a joke, has lots of support, and is a very appealing option in a number of cases.

> very appealing option in a number of cases.

What cases do you have in mind?

Re: Mean Stack

#38

Post by drhayes9 »

cuttooth wrote: post #4
wasd wrote: post #3

What's the deal with MongoDB and the node.js community? I don't find non relational databases that enticing and there are javascript drivers for postgres [1]. [1] https://github.com/creationix/postgres-js

JavaScript "developers" feel the need to not use any other language than JavaScript, so they decided to shove it into as many unnecessary places as possible, even if their code more frequently ends up being an unmaintainable mess with no noticeable performance gains.

The "developers" dig seems unnecessary.

@cuttooth and @PommeDeTerre, since you both are pushing the "JS is a flawed language" angle, what do you find are its greatest flaws?

Re: Mean Stack

#39

Post by krmmalik »

outside1234 wrote: post #20
alanh wrote: post #13

I’m not a NoSQL expert, but everyone I know who is considers Mongo a joke in production. And I would never use Angular in production apps (“painfully slow” is reason enough but I have ideological differences as well). That makes saying “no” to this stack easy.

Mongo is incredibly productive. In the "lean startup" sense it is an easy database to start with.

Exactly the discussion i had today with a colleague. Mongoose makes it incredibly easy to get started and iterate rapidly.

I have yet to experience MongoDB in a large scale production environment and the common pitfalls often cited, but let's face it - If you're Start-Up has scalability issues, it's prob a nice problem to have.

Based on my personal observations, i suspect the lack of adoption is because founders are thinking about scale prematurely - which is rather Anti Lean Startup and Anti-Pg anyway.

Re: Mean Stack

#40

Post by cliffu »

drhayes9 wrote: post #38
cuttooth wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript "developers" feel the need to not use any other language than JavaScript, so they decided to shove it into as many unnecessary places as possible, even if their code more frequently ends up being an unmaintainable mess with no noticeable performance gains.

The "developers" dig seems unnecessary. @cuttooth and @PommeDeTerre, since you both are pushing the "JS is a flawed language" angle, what do you find are its greatest flaws?

The opinions of one who writes "Javascript 'developers'" are probably not worth knowing. Javascript has stupid scoping rules, and some other obvious flaws, but it's not flawed as in unusable, and it's certainly not flawed as in "'developers'".
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