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Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

defundthensa.com

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Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#31

Post by sinak »

Just a quick note to add that this was built over the course of 5 hours by four developers as part of http://taskforce.is, which was pretty much assembled here on Hacker News.

Please take a few minutes to call. It's amazing how low conversion rates are on calling campaigns like this one - a factor of 100 lower than email asks - but this is really critical. We only have one day to make this happen.

If you're interested in helping with campaigns like this in the future, you can sign up here: http://sina.is/rritf.html

A big thanks to Thomas Davis, Jens Nockert, and Beau Gunderson for building the site.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#32

Post by rb2e »

infinity0 wrote: post #25
rb2e wrote: post #19

The NSA is the heart of the intelligence gathering apparatus of the US Military Industrial Complex. Like it or not, this bill will pass either tomorrow or another day, tacked on to another bill. It is strategic to the military and the country. There is no way in hell, this bill will not pass. You can scream, occupy the streets, protest, do whatever but it will not change a thing. It will go through. The US military I…

Your post accomplishes nothing except to persuade people to give up the fight for civil liberties. You propose no solution or do you give any additional insight into developing a solution. Regardless of your actual intentions, you might as well be performing psychological propaganda. It's not helpful.

No offence is taken. I've been reading and studying Intelligence/espionage for a long time. Not the fancy James Bond stuff, just the boring average, mundane stuff of the past 100 years.

I offer no solution because quite frankly, there isn't one. Unless you want to shut down the US military's and civilian intelligence gathering capabilities, it's not going to happen. There will always be reading your mail and listening in to your phonecalls. It is not going to stop.

I am not for this, I love my privacy but I am simply pointing out what will happen, regardless of any action taken.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#33

Post by sebkomianos »

Do we really believe that "a vote" can change such things? Do we really believe that we can avoid such situations (= non-transparent governments) within the current system?

I mean, when did you actually vote FOR the NSA funding in the first place so that you can now believe that you can defund it by voting against?

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#34

Post by falk »

snitko wrote: post #28
czr80 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let me get this straight: we abolish taxes, eliminate governments, and then ... paradise?

It depends on how you define paradise. If paradise is the same as now, but without massively killing population of foreign countries with drones, keeping people in prison without trial and massively spying on your own people, then yes, it's going to be paradise. If your question is whether we can still have a civilized, stable and prosperous society, ask yourself would the demand for the good things that are currentl…

It's been working pretty well for Somalia I hear.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#35

Post by snitko »

eksith wrote: post #26
snitko wrote: post #10

I think this is fighting the symptom rather than the cause. NSA is a symptom of a much larger problem, which is taxes. If you didn't have them, you wouldn't have to demand those things in the first place, because all the money you'd give would be given voluntarily and to organizations that you choose and think are important.

Meanwhile, back on Earth... Taxes are the means of transferring worth to folks like firefighters, police officers, construction works etc... You know, the folks who hold up infrastructure and need to eat food and stuff. And I can count on one hand the number of people I've met who would donate to these institutions in this economy. Now if there's a way to reroute existing tax funds that used to go to rubbish into thi…

You are correct that taxes are means to finance good things too. But ask yourself this: can things you agree with be financed without simultaneously financing things you disagree with?

Police officers, firefighters, teachers... Could it be that we don't really need any government to finance them? The demand is there. Private companies will be more than happy to fill it. All the government does is pretends that those things can't be done without it and then uses some of the money collected to finance things it wants, but you disagree with.

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#37

Post by noarchy »

eksith wrote: post #26
snitko wrote: post #10

I think this is fighting the symptom rather than the cause. NSA is a symptom of a much larger problem, which is taxes. If you didn't have them, you wouldn't have to demand those things in the first place, because all the money you'd give would be given voluntarily and to organizations that you choose and think are important.

Meanwhile, back on Earth... Taxes are the means of transferring worth to folks like firefighters, police officers, construction works etc... You know, the folks who hold up infrastructure and need to eat food and stuff. And I can count on one hand the number of people I've met who would donate to these institutions in this economy. Now if there's a way to reroute existing tax funds that used to go to rubbish into thi…

>Taxes are the means of transferring worth to folks like firefighters, police officers, construction works etc... You know, the folks who hold up infrastructure and need to eat food and stuff. And I can count on one hand the number of people I've met who would donate to these institutions in this economy.

Yet people give money to institutions every day, voluntarily. Not to mention, plenty of construction projects exist outside of government, as does security. Clearly some institutions are of value to us. If we thought we were getting real value out of our tax payments, the government would not need to use threats against us to collect it. We'd line right up to give our money away.

>Now if there's a way to reroute existing tax funds that used to go to rubbish into things that are really necessary, I'm all ears. And there may just be a way to work out something that enough heckling of public officials may... just may... get off the ground.

And what, to you, are things that are "really necessary"? That's one of the things that grinds governments to a halt in democratic societies - the need to agree on how to spend other people's money. It is never pretty.

>Ambitious ideas for change that have no chance of getting traction.

Every new layer of legislation that gets added in the name of "accountability" does little more than add paperwork, costs, and personnel to the payrolls. Then we complain yet more about government waste and inefficiency. It always sounds nice to talk about how to hold the crooks in power to task, but they're still the ones in charge of enacting the laws.

>until we throw out currency altogether.

What was this "Earth" of which you spoke?

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#38

Post by unimpressive »

snitko wrote: post #28
czr80 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, let me get this straight: we abolish taxes, eliminate governments, and then ... paradise?

It depends on how you define paradise. If paradise is the same as now, but without massively killing population of foreign countries with drones, keeping people in prison without trial and massively spying on your own people, then yes, it's going to be paradise. If your question is whether we can still have a civilized, stable and prosperous society, ask yourself would the demand for the good things that are currentl…

This true seeker has some questions:

How do you deal with petty crime? It would be impractical to set up a temporary court for every theft.

How do you hold the criminals while they're prosecuted, if they're prosecuted? Anarchists generally don't like prisons. Do you have a jail as a temporary holding cell?

How do you stop external forces from taking over? As the old adage goes "If you want peace, prepare for war.".

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#39

Post by Dr_chaos »

LOL Fools

You know that the CIA run most of the drugs in and out of the great US. You know that they have massive surplus cash? Like so big they don't really know what to do with it

These 'government' bodies can and will exist without government. This is how they fund most if not all their black ops, that way nothing needs to be on the books.

if we stopped public money, I doubt it would even make a dent

Re: Block NSA funding for collecting the call records of all Americans

#40

Post by MisterWebz »

oleganza wrote: post #24
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #2

This is something real, tangible, and valuable that we can all actually do. All of this month I have felt powerless. This is something within everyone's power to do, and it can definitely help start the ball rolling back the way it came. It is pretty unfortunate that there is such a short window of time in which this information can be disseminated. I can imagine if there were a bit more time, this could really sprea…

I disagree, it is not something real or tangible. I'm all for defunding NSA, but it's not like a regular business which you can boycott by not giving them money. You have to go and ask permission from the government to not give the money (which they previously extracted from you by force for the "good of society") to some of the government agencies. It's pretty much like going to NSA itself and ask them to defund the…

Why wouldn't a boycott work? Instead of signing petitions that won't change a thing, try something that actually requires some real effort and look for alternatives to the current tech giants. For starters, stop using Facebook (gasp).

When they realize that cooperating with the NSA will severely damage their reputation, they'll think twice before handing over user data this easily. Not to mention that if they realize their users are migrating, they might start lobbying against the NSA.

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