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Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

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Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#31

Post by steveklabnik »

steveplace wrote: post #21

Basic income on top of everything else doesn't make much sense (cost-wise). But if we could trade B.I. for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and other social progams-- it would probably be more cost efficient as individuals look after their money better than other people do. Here's a video from Milton Friedman (not Tom Friedman!) who is advocating for a negative income tax-- a variation of basic income. http…

The article directly addresses this point:

> The welfare bureaucracy is largely dismantled. No means testing, no signing on, no bullying young people into stacking shelves for free, no separate state pension.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#32

Post by waps »

nawitus wrote: post #15
joshuaellinger wrote: post #2

It misses the fact that work is fulfilling for (most) people. I've heard talk of the government being the employer of last resort, which has its own problems. But just paying people to breath has problems as well.

>It misses the fact that work is fulfilling for (most) people. Basic income is not against working, it's point is to let people work in all kinds of situations. Old-fashion social security usually makes the tax rate for certain part-time / freelancing work 100% (e.g. $100 increase in pay can reduce benefits $100, therefore the actual marginal tax rate is 100% and most people won't do that work). > But just paying peo…

1) Work is not nearly as fulfilling as doing nothing for most people. I have no trouble admitting this to myself. And while I'd probably still do something, I'd no longer see any need to make any compromises to work together with anybody else. That would be satisfying. It would also be an economically negative proposition, but I'd learn a lot. Or at least, I'd feel I do.

2) About the "Nordic countries". WTF ? Have you looked at the crime stats for Malmo ?

Please note that the nordic countries are in a somewhat special situation just because of their location. They also have very few homeless. Of course, homelessness is a death penalty there, merely because of the weather. That means that in Nordic countries everybody has a house, and not made from wood, double glazing, brick, generally solid and everybody's inside before the sun is down. Breaking and entering after dark is insane.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#33

Post by effn »

steveplace wrote: post #21

Basic income on top of everything else doesn't make much sense (cost-wise). But if we could trade B.I. for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and other social progams-- it would probably be more cost efficient as individuals look after their money better than other people do. Here's a video from Milton Friedman (not Tom Friedman!) who is advocating for a negative income tax-- a variation of basic income. http…

You can't use Social Security funds to fund a Basic Income. It operates similarly to a pension fund so it would be equivalent to confiscate peoples lifetime savings. Good luck explaining that to someone who is just about to retire.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#34

Post by steveklabnik »

cpursley wrote: post #29
summerdown2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Communist and hard-socialist countries all have tried the basic income idea and failed. I know of a few short lived experiments, but I'm not aware of any country that has implemented a basic income, let alone failed at it. Could you let me know where you're thinking of? > It all sounds good in theory, but in practice... ... where has it failed in practice?

You're looking at the effect, and not the cause. What caused the global banking crisis? 1.) Cheap money via gov't Fed Policy (created the artificial boom) 2.) Government mandates in mortgage lending (caused a lot of people to buy homes when they weren't in a realistic position to do so)

You completely ignored their direct question. Which communist countries implemented basic income?

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#35

Post by jeffasinger »

mtoddh wrote: post #9
speeder wrote: post #6

And where the money to pay for that will come from? I suspect if you just tax the rich like crazy, they will just move out to somewhere else.

And where the money to pay for that will come from? Apparently corporations will be subsidizing this: "How would we pay for it? We could start by getting corporations to pay their taxes. As I mentioned above, corporate profit margins have hit an all time high, and that money will circulate far faster if it’s placed in the hands of consumers."

I think reducing the bureaucracy around the current welfare system would also help a lot.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#36

Post by king_jester »

steveplace wrote: post #21

Basic income on top of everything else doesn't make much sense (cost-wise). But if we could trade B.I. for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and other social progams-- it would probably be more cost efficient as individuals look after their money better than other people do. Here's a video from Milton Friedman (not Tom Friedman!) who is advocating for a negative income tax-- a variation of basic income. http…

Medicare and medicaid wouldn't really apply so much to this as there are systemic problems that make spending money on healthcare not such a good idea. Rather, with a BI we should also include a universal health care option to avoid the issues with consumer healthcare spending and marketing.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#37

Post by derefr »

effn wrote: post #33
steveplace wrote: post #21

Basic income on top of everything else doesn't make much sense (cost-wise). But if we could trade B.I. for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, and other social progams-- it would probably be more cost efficient as individuals look after their money better than other people do. Here's a video from Milton Friedman (not Tom Friedman!) who is advocating for a negative income tax-- a variation of basic income. http…

You can't use Social Security funds to fund a Basic Income. It operates similarly to a pension fund so it would be equivalent to confiscate peoples lifetime savings. Good luck explaining that to someone who is just about to retire.

You can, however, say that going forward, people will pay into basic income instead of social security; and that no one born after [policy-change date] will receive social security in the future (since they never paid into it.)

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#38

Post by pieterhg »

Can somebody explain to me how basic income can work in terms of the cycle of spending? If companies have to pay for all of people's income through a taxable percentage of their income, then these companies will only receive a share of that amount back through consumer spending? So the economy will shrink in a vicious cycle, right?

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#39

Post by khill »

Wouldn't the basic income value need to vary across regions? For example, the notion that:

"Every single adult member receives a weekly payment from the state, which is enough to live comfortably on"

would mean a different value in San Francisco than in Grover, NC.

If the government adjusted the basic income to account for regional cost-of-living, I imagine it would be popular to maintain a fake residency in an expensive area while actually living somewhere cheaper.

If the basic income wasn't adjusted for different areas, you would probably see some areas become rich elite enclaves while other areas become basic income ghettos.

Re: Trends that will create demand for an Unconditional Basic Income

#40

Post by alexvr »

brador wrote: post #19

With basic income, wouldn't the economy adapt to the fresh money supply and rents and other costs raise to account for it? It would effectivly be additional currency inflation by a different name?

Maybe instead of giving everyone cash, the government could provide people with a default shelter, food plan, etc.
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