Bolivian Leader's Plane Rerouted on Snowden Fear

Post by eli » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 3:13 AM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #30

eli wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to jump to conspiracies. Is it really that crazy that France might just want to help an ally track down a desperately wanted fugitive? Surely they'd ask for our help if they thought a rogue intelligence agent was flying across the US.

Except, Snowden obviously didn't do this for personal gain. His life is probably over. Compare this situation to a British citizen a few years ago who sold sensitive state secrets for money, and got the MAXIMUM PENALTY by UK law: 2 years in prison. Snowden who rightly or wrongly is acting from I believe are his own moral goals, may get the death penalty, tortured like Manning, or life in prison. "desperately wanted f…

Post by WildUtah » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 3:33 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #10

qwertzlcoatl wrote: post #4

The ability of the US government to bend other governments in a certain direction, is like a leak in and of itself, as I surely did not expect so many governments, including mine in germany, to be this intimidated by the US powerhouse.

I read a Crooked Timber thread recently comparing the US's treatment of Latin America to the Soviet Union's treatment of the Warsaw Pact. The world made slightly more sense after that. The US is intimidating. It has made all non-democratic forms of government illegitimate by waging wars of extermination against them, it is a quarter of the world economy by itself, its military black budget is almost certainly larger…

Post by lttlrck » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 3:35 AM UTC

ims wrote: post #26

mark_l_watson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA/US government probably has lots of dirt on politicians in these countries, and are applying it. Democracies are not so much democracies when the NSA can blackmail local politicians. I personally believe that this is the whole point of our large scale sweep of "everyone" surveillance, no matter how innocent they are.

That could be it. Or the United States could be applying the typical measures of pressure in the diplomatic toolbox, consisting largely of economic incentives, concessions that meet other countries' policy goals, and appeals to mutual interest. You know, the standard tools of statecraft that have barely changed since the Congress of Vienna. You decide which seems more plausible.

Post by milfot » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 3:38 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #28

mark_l_watson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA/US government probably has lots of dirt on politicians in these countries, and are applying it. Democracies are not so much democracies when the NSA can blackmail local politicians. I personally believe that this is the whole point of our large scale sweep of "everyone" surveillance, no matter how innocent they are.

No need to jump to conspiracies. Is it really that crazy that France might just want to help an ally track down a desperately wanted fugitive? Surely they'd ask for our help if they thought a rogue intelligence agent was flying across the US.

Post by mindslight » Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 3:53 AM UTC

WildUtah wrote: post #33

barry-cotter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a Crooked Timber thread recently comparing the US's treatment of Latin America to the Soviet Union's treatment of the Warsaw Pact. The world made slightly more sense after that. The US is intimidating. It has made all non-democratic forms of government illegitimate by waging wars of extermination against them, it is a quarter of the world economy by itself, its military black budget is almost certainly larger…

It has made all non-democratic forms of government illegitimate by waging wars of extermination against them I agree with a lot of your post, but it wasn't anything the US government did that made all non-democratic forms of government illegitimate. They have all been illegitimate since the very first time a gang of stronger men beat and killed a weaker one just because they could.