Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

blog.torproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 54 posts

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#31

Post by andrewcooke »

bpatrianakos wrote: post #23
danso wrote: post #5

Whether or not FB is deliberately blocking Tor now , how out-of-line would it be for them to eventually block it in the future? It doesn't seem in their best interest as a company to allow Tor connections...but other than that, what ethical obligations do they have to allow anonymous connections? FB already has a policy more-or-less mandating real identities...so for them, this is kind of a non-issue, right? By using…

I don't think it would be out of line at all. I got downvoted to hell for expressing similar opinions before but I think this is a perfectly reasonable opinion. Facebook is in the business of social networking, not activism. The number of users using Tor compared to the general population is bound to be so low that they either shouldn't care enough to bother blocking it or if they did for some reason, really wouldn't…

your logic is fine, except for the assumption that ethical obligations come only from maximizing profit.

why do you have such a low ethical standard for companies? i realise it's fairly common in the usa, but what's the motivation? is it just that you get your opinions from the same companies, and so eat what you are fed? is this what you want from your world?

do you simply feel you have no choice, and are stating a "hard reality"? something as complex as a society's expectations of ethics is so complex that it can (and will) respond to public opinion. by posting something like the above you're not just stating what you think is fact, but advocating it. there's no separation between those two roles when your trapped inside a system with feedback...

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#32

Post by pessimizer »

maskedinvader wrote: post #6
cantbecool wrote: post #4

Honestly, who cares if Facebook isn't blocking Tor traffic? They are only interested in mining your personal information to sell to advertisers; they don't care how you get to their service. In addition, Facebook will still ban you if you use pseudonym.

Facebook is not forcing you to give them your personal information ? I understand and pretty much agree with most of what you say but can we agree that Facebook is simply another company trying to make money and be a thriving business and not an evil organisation trying to take over your life and destroy your liberties ? capiche ?

>another company trying to make money and be a thriving business

>evil organisation trying to take over your life and destroy your liberties

This is a false dichotomy. I'm not sure why you think that it's impossible for Facebook to be both of these things.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#33

Post by ChuckMcM »

andrewcooke wrote: post #31
bpatrianakos wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it would be out of line at all. I got downvoted to hell for expressing similar opinions before but I think this is a perfectly reasonable opinion. Facebook is in the business of social networking, not activism. The number of users using Tor compared to the general population is bound to be so low that they either shouldn't care enough to bother blocking it or if they did for some reason, really wouldn't…

your logic is fine, except for the assumption that ethical obligations come only from maximizing profit. why do you have such a low ethical standard for companies? i realise it's fairly common in the usa, but what's the motivation? is it just that you get your opinions from the same companies, and so eat what you are fed? is this what you want from your world? do you simply feel you have no choice, and are stating a…

Culturally I suspect it comes from the principle of freedom of action, such that people are free to choose to act they want to act and others are free to interact/not-interact with them based on the choices made. So Facebook might choose to act unethically and then people would choose not to use them. Facebook would fail and a new more ethical company would arise in its place.

That at least is the optimists view. The demonstration of crapitalism [1] shows that if part of the selection function is missing (in this case privacy) then everyone loses.

I really liked your notion of advocating the status quo as a trap.

[1] Crapitalism is when some definition of "quality" is taken out of the product selection mix, allowing simply "functionality" followed by "price" as the selecting mechanisms. This leads to inexpensive products which do what they say for a very short period of time. Ultimately resulting in higher replacement costs (which sadly benefits the manufacturer).

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#34

Post by pseut »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #12

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

How are you measuring "attention"? Points? Comments? It seems entirely possible that more people have read the correction but feel less compelled to comment on this (less "exciting") story.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#35

Post by bpatrianakos »

andrewcooke wrote: post #31
bpatrianakos wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it would be out of line at all. I got downvoted to hell for expressing similar opinions before but I think this is a perfectly reasonable opinion. Facebook is in the business of social networking, not activism. The number of users using Tor compared to the general population is bound to be so low that they either shouldn't care enough to bother blocking it or if they did for some reason, really wouldn't…

your logic is fine, except for the assumption that ethical obligations come only from maximizing profit. why do you have such a low ethical standard for companies? i realise it's fairly common in the usa, but what's the motivation? is it just that you get your opinions from the same companies, and so eat what you are fed? is this what you want from your world? do you simply feel you have no choice, and are stating a…

My ethical standards for companies vary from company to company. I mentioned Mozilla in my other comment. If they had done this I would hold them to a higher standard because of what they stand for. Facebook has a totally different mindset as a company. Their priorities are what make me hold them to such a "low" standard.

I also try to put myself in the company's shoes. If I were them, this issue just wouldn't be my priority. It's a nice to have, not a must have and if I had to make the choice between what's best for the company (which also means most of its users) I'd make the choice to disappoint some people.

What I want from my world and what I expect from Facebook are two different things. I'm all for privacy and I want Facebook to respect that. But I also can't expect the world to cater to my every want no matter how morally just I believe my requests are. Taking my opinion on what I think we should expect from Facebook and turning it into a referendum on my morals, lack of morals, or cynicism is not only drawing false assumptions but severely exaggerating things. I can be in favor of using Tor to access Facebook and Facebook's right to refuse me access to it because of it at the same time. Things aren't so cut and dry.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#36

Post by mpyne »

pessimizer wrote: post #32
maskedinvader wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is not forcing you to give them your personal information ? I understand and pretty much agree with most of what you say but can we agree that Facebook is simply another company trying to make money and be a thriving business and not an evil organisation trying to take over your life and destroy your liberties ? capiche ?

>another company trying to make money and be a thriving business >evil organisation trying to take over your life and destroy your liberties This is a false dichotomy. I'm not sure why you think that it's impossible for Facebook to be both of these things.

It wasn't a dichotomy in the first place. The commenter said that the first applied and the second didn't, not that they were mutually exclusive.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#37

Post by ars »

danso wrote: post #5

Whether or not FB is deliberately blocking Tor now , how out-of-line would it be for them to eventually block it in the future? It doesn't seem in their best interest as a company to allow Tor connections...but other than that, what ethical obligations do they have to allow anonymous connections? FB already has a policy more-or-less mandating real identities...so for them, this is kind of a non-issue, right? By using…

> Whether or not FB is deliberately blocking Tor now, how out-of-line would it be for them to eventually block it in the future? ... FB already has a policy more-or-less mandating real identities...so for them, this is kind of a non-issue, right?

Those two are not the same. Even if they want to know your name, it doesn't follow that they automatically should get to know where you are (i.e. your IP).

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#38

Post by interknot »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #22
dylangs1030 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part of that life cycle is being one of a minority group trying to explain what's really going on. I had the top comment on 3 different NSA stories at one time, correcting misinformation in each. I still don't think it helped.

The demographic of the site really feels like it has shifted in the years I've been here (this is my second account -- the first one was around for even another couple of years before). In the past, I would say that most people on the site were successful doers, either working on startups or in tech. The focus was almost exclusively tech, with very little politics. But over the last few years it really feels like the…

I agree with you, but it's worth remembering that the early days of HN predate things like the financial crisis. Maybe HN's stance on big business has changed because society's stance also changed?

The prevalence of posts about politics can likely be attributed to the increasing(ly disturbing) intersection of politics and the internet.

Regardless, I'd say HN has done a pretty good job remaining relevant.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#39

Post by raylu »

subsystem wrote: post #26
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #12

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

"An incorrect story is posted" As far as I see there wasn't anything actually incorrect about the story. At worst it was implied that it was a deliberate move and the rest seems correct including that tor users are actually blocked. Maybe if people understood critical thinking as actually thinking instead of being critical this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Also, if I had a unicorn.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#40

Post by binarysolo »

Tor has an unfortunately seedy underside, where data scrapers and online scammers (two of several use cases that I know of) use the service to obfuscate their actions and avoid crackdown. "That's why we can't have nice things."

For those who are still somewhat paranoid, consider getting paid proxies for a much more reliable service while still maintaining IP anonymity.

Post reply on HN