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Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

reuters.com

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Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#31

Post by TallGuyShort »

onli wrote: post #30
Cass wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

Germany itself isn't the only reason I doubt the US would attack Germany. If the US attacked Germany, I'm sure most of Europe would side with Germany at this point. So it would be akin to attacking all of Europe. Not something that's worth a single NSA leak, I'm sure.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#32

Post by salimmadjd »

We are in the Stasi 2.0 era now in US.

Everything you do, buy, places you visit, people you socialize, your interests, opinions, everything you say, etc. is under surveillance. Funny how East Germans would risk their lives just to escape their Stasi-controlled world.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#33

Post by Swizec »

onli wrote: post #30
Cass wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

Except for the tiny fact that you attack Germany, you attack EU. And that's pretty much a world war right there. Nobody wants another world war, don't be silly.

M.A.D. still exists by the way. It's still why all major nations are at peace and why the EU gave so much flak to the US a few years ago when Bush wanted to install a nuclear shield. He later had to back down or serious stuff would've happened. (afaik)

Also, according to wikipedia, Europe has 150 to 240 nuclear warheads. Plenty enough to destroy all US major cities.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#34

Post by arianvanp »

wahsd wrote: post #17

Stasi.? Germans are simply shying away from comparing it to the Nazis' unimaginable wet dream because of a very self-conscious sensitivity about the matter. But don't fool yourselves, ignoring other unrelated, horrible outcomes that were a consequence of the times, this level of surveillance is by far worse than anything that has ever existed in all of human history. It is tantamount to mind reading, and without a do…

You're confusing WWII germany and post WWII germany. Stasi was the ministry for homeland security of East-Germany in the post-WWII era untill the fall of the wall (1950- 1989). It has nothing to do with the Nazis (1930ish to 1945) The Stasi was a way to take hold of the country and get it stable again after the nazi regime fell. Though they did that by turning _EAST_ (not west) germany into a police state.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#35

Post by onli »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #31
onli wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

Germany itself isn't the only reason I doubt the US would attack Germany. If the US attacked Germany, I'm sure most of Europe would side with Germany at this point. So it would be akin to attacking all of Europe. Not something that's worth a single NSA leak, I'm sure.

Of course not worth it. Think i just minded the "powerful".

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#36

Post by sentenza »

danbruc wrote: post #18
wahsd wrote: post #17

Stasi.? Germans are simply shying away from comparing it to the Nazis' unimaginable wet dream because of a very self-conscious sensitivity about the matter. But don't fool yourselves, ignoring other unrelated, horrible outcomes that were a consequence of the times, this level of surveillance is by far worse than anything that has ever existed in all of human history. It is tantamount to mind reading, and without a do…

When it comes to surveillance the Stasi did a way better job than any NS organisation.

While I principally agree with you, I must add that _the_ data protection related historical event that impressed me most is how the Nazis used the excellent Dutch census data that fell into their hands to round up the Jews of the Netherlands. I don't know how widespread knowledge of this is (I was taught it in school), but I've heard it brought up a few times in discussions about personal data.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#37

Post by mpyne »

DasIch wrote: post #19
hga wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" fully armed " Right there you start going astray, a lot of them are doing logistics of one type or another, including our largest overseas military hospital, the top level hospital for serious GWoT theater injuries. More directly, it would all depend on why they were there.

They are nevertheless armed among other things with nuclear weapons.

Those aren't the nukes that Germany would have to worry about.

The U.S. attacking Germany is even more paranoid than chem-trail mind control agents, I'm just throwing that in to go along with the hypothetical.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#38

Post by [deleted] »

onli wrote: post #30
Cass wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops? Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

[deleted]

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#39

Post by [deleted] »

bejar37 wrote: post #26

Honestly, I'm starting to feel like the lack of comments from European leaders about the infringement of non-American's data might be because they know they might be the next to get caught with their hands in the honey pot. I can't tell if I'm just starting to be part of the tin-foil hat crowd though.

[deleted]

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#40

Post by rz2k »

Cass wrote: post #16
woah wrote: post #2

Not surprising. With the Gestapo, and then the Stasi, the Germans have an extensive cultural memory of the effects of comprehensive government surveillance of their lives. They are still surprisingly tolerant of the long term military occupation of their country by the US. It would have been interesting if Snowden had holed up in Germany instead of HK. I wonder if the inevitable US military extradition would have tes…

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

It is also worth pointing out that the occupation of Germany ended in 1955.

The US military has a policy of being forward deployed around the globe, so it negotiates agreements with may countries around the world to station troops in strategic locations.

The military bases are there as a result of legal agreements and treaties, not because they would forcibly resist any attempts to expel them, and there is no sentiment in the US whatsoever to change that policy and begin fighting to establish bases in friendly countries.

For a parallel, look to Uzbekistan where the US operated an airbase after 9/11. In 2005, there was a massacre by Uzbek government forces, and the US said there ought to be an international investigation. Uzbekistan replied by rescinding the agreement for use of the airbase, and the US left. No shots were fired.

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