Question from a non-American: if not spying, what are they supposed to do?
Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
31–40 of 479 posts
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#32I suggest every software developer take a course or two on cryptography and make privacy integral in the products you develop.
While this is sound advice there is the problem that if you get very big/popular the government can knock at your door with sealed court orders to enable things like wiretapping.
Case in point: "Microsoft’s tweaks to Skype could facilitate wiretapping" http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132935-microsoft-tweaki...
If that has happened or not under the current system we will never know - which is the exact issue the OP was citing.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course. You should also be fighting it with every fiber in your body. Generations behind you gave their lives for rights like these, and the current generation seems to be giving them away because they are too busy chatting with friends on Facebook to care about it. And if you don't fight it now peacefully, you'll be fighting it in the streets in a bloody revolution, in a decade or two.
I don't see any way to fight it now. What are your suggestions? If we were to have a revolution here, even in a decade or two, we'd probably end up with something much worse than what we have now.
Have Congress pass laws to make such surveillance illegal. Stop using Verizon or any other carrier that complies (economic protest). Only use technologies that don't permit such spying. Pass state legislation that is counter to the federal mandate and create an uproar that way. The list goes on.
We're stil a democracy and when it comes down to it we're still a democracy that gives a lot of power to any one senator. If you have one dog in the fight - if the people in even one state can get their act together enough to elect someone on your side - there are things you can do to have your voice heard.
You really shouldn't feel so unempowered - despite the 1% rhetoric, it's still pretty much the best time in the history of the world for the little guy.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#34I suggest every software developer take a course or two on cryptography and make privacy integral in the products you develop.
Cryptography doesn't help at all when your government will require you by law to provide them with a decrypted dump. That's what they did with Verizon. Verizon could not provide you with privacy no matter how much they wanted.
End-to-end encryption and p2p networks help in that respect.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#35I can't say I'm surprised. It's well known the NSA is monitoring internet traffic (read this article in Wired, published in 2006: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ip-telephony/these-photos-illustra...) and they have a massive data center in Utah which they use for foreign data collection (read: phone calls).
Under the FISA guidelines they can gather foreign data, but have to get a warrant for every US citizen they want to spy on. The NSA admitted they have an excess of domestic data because it's hard to filter out. So they have all this data available, and somehow we have to trust them when they say 'Oh, but we won't use it'...
To put a little perspective into things: I live in The Netherlands. A somewhat decently managed country (opinions differ!), with the highest rate of phone taps on civilians in the world. So all's not well on this side of the ocean, too.
The way I see things, there's a gliding scale between security on one end, and privacy on the other. I know the HN crowd generally gravitates towards the privacy end. But realize that a lot of people don't necessarily feel the same way. If you're a law-abiding, middle class citizen with a family, steady job and a mortgage, you're likely to give up a little privacy over security. I don't think there's anything massively wrong with that. What I do have problems with is the fact that they're being so secretive about it.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#36I will never understand the inherent distrust America seems to have in their government. Every time a document like this is released, the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers (which it does not), then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents, then to assume that the government actually acts on this and randomly spies on people, then to assume that they are using that data for malicious purposes, and suddenly the government is evil.
Perhaps the only thing they use the data for (if indeed it exists) it to programatically uncover underground pedophilia rings? Perhaps they use it to pre-empt mass shootings? Perhaps the country with the most powerful government in the world should have a little trust in it now and then?
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#37I give this maybe 2-3 months before the whistleblower behind this is being prosecuted by the Obama administration for "harming national security and putting people's lives in danger, and/or espionage".
To notch up the paranoia a bit, the original court order document looks like it may contain some digital fingerprinting around the edges (either made by a certain class of printer or placed there prior to dissemination) that could lead authorities to the person(s) they originally distributed this specific copy of the court order to.
Of course, I hope that is not the case here but people should be aware these things exist.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#38I suggest every software developer take a course or two on cryptography and make privacy integral in the products you develop.
While this is sound advice there is the problem that if you get very big/popular the government can knock at your door with sealed court orders to enable things like wiretapping. Case in point: "Microsoft’s tweaks to Skype could facilitate wiretapping" http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132935-microsoft-tweaki... If that has happened or not under the current system we will never know - which is the exact issue the…
Build open-source, encrypted, p2p networks.
Fortunately the 1st Amendment is still mostly respected, at least relative to some of the others.
[Edit] Now, monetizing such software is an interesting problem.
Ripple/OpenCoin may have found one model: include a cryptocurrency that's used as credits in the system, and claim a large portion for yourself, which you can later sell. The problem is if they open source the software too early someone could easily create a new network with the currency allocated to themselves.
[Edit] Perhaps that could be solved with a new open source license that forbids forking the network.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#39I will never understand the inherent distrust America seems to have in their government. Every time a document like this is released, the logic is to assume that the document applies to all Verizon customers (which it does not), then to assume that all telecom companies have been given similar documents, then to assume that the government actually acts on this and randomly spies on people, then to assume that they ar…
America was founded on the distrust of government. It's deeply rooted in its people.
Re: Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see any way to fight it now. What are your suggestions? If we were to have a revolution here, even in a decade or two, we'd probably end up with something much worse than what we have now.
Develop new technologies that make this kind of thing impossible.
If they can't control said technologies, and put backdoors in them, then they'll make them illegal. That's a non-starter. A solution can only ultimately occur in D.C.