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Dear WordPress

ma.tt

31–40 of 80 posts

Re: Dear WordPress

#31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly unlikely. Wordpress is the opposite of simplicity, its highly configurable and thats (one of the reasons) why its so widely used. HN or hacker community is a very small community and its hardly the microcosm of the internet.

But Hacker Community is the one that guides others towards new technologies. 10 years from now, Octopress may be prime blogging platform or second best!

>But Hacker Community is the one that guides others towards new technologies. 10 years from now, Octopress may be prime blogging platform or second best!

Not really -- they just like to believe it works that way. What the more people chose is based on more pragmatic issues and market factors that "what the geeks use".

And no, "we advice the rest of the family / friends what to buy" doesn't cut it either. We may do it, for OUR friends/family, but in total we are very few, and our friends/families aggregated are insignificant statistical noise to the general population. And nobody mimicks them either.

The "hacker community" doesn't even influence the general programming community (which is like 1000 times bigger). For example, most people use Java or .NET and not Haskell or Smalltalk or LISP etc -- heck, in the ranks of the millions of the general programming community, not even that many use Python. And that's why even in programming circles Wordpress wins 2 or 3 orders of magnitude to all things like Octopress aggregated

What does happen is that sometimes the Hacker community embraces a new technology first. But getting there first is not like "guiding others".

In the same sense that a tiny minority of underground music fans might have liked some obscure band 5 years before it become mainstream. That doesn't mean that they are the factor the band "made it big". If that was it, then the dozens of other obscure bands they like would have "made it big" or close to big, too.

Re: Dear WordPress

#32
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the feeling that those who "like" wordpress are either heavily invested in the platform or can't read code. Simpler, more specialised blogging engines are so beautifully designed, I don't see myself ever wanting to work with Wordpress again.

If other specialized blogging engines had one-tenth the extensibility that WP has, then I could see myself switching. But when you have hundreds of thousands of people willing to write plugins for free or very little money that integrate with the most complex payment systems and third-party APIs, you tend to deal with the crappy core code of the main module.

[deleted]

Re: Dear WordPress

#33
post #20
post #6

I can appreciate what wordpress has achieved over the years, and what it has helped to create. But the current wordpress code base is a nightmare to work with, and doesn't scale well. Having said that, it is an excellent blogging platform and CMS, but this is something that is usually forgotten, resulting in it finding itself shoehorned into the most inappropriate places.

I get the feeling that those who "like" wordpress are either heavily invested in the platform or can't read code. Simpler, more specialised blogging engines are so beautifully designed, I don't see myself ever wanting to work with Wordpress again.

Simpler, more specialised blogging engines are so beautifully designed, I don't see myself ever wanting to work with Wordpress again.

This reminds me of Joel Spolsky's "Bloatware and the 80/20 myth": http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000020.html , in which he says:

A lot of software developers are seduced by the old "80/20" rule. It seems to make a lot of sense: 80% of the people use 20% of the features. So you convince yourself that you only need to implement 20% of the features, and you can still sell 80% as many copies.

Unfortunately, it's never the same 20%. Everybody uses a different set of features. In the last 10 years I have probably heard of dozens of companies who, determined not to learn from each other, tried to release "lite" word processors that only implement 20% of the features. This story is as old as the PC. Most of the time, what happens is that they give their program to a journalist to review, and the journalist reviews it by writing their review using the new word processor, and then the journalist tries to find the "word count" feature which they need because most journalists have precise word count requirements, and it's not there, because it's in the "80% that nobody uses," and the journalist ends up writing a story that attempts to claim simultaneously that lite programs are good, bloat is bad, and I can't use this damn thing 'cause it won't count my words. If I had a dollar for every time this has happened I would be very happy.

When you start marketing your "lite" product, and you tell people, "hey, it's lite, only 1MB," they tend to be very happy, then they ask you if it has their crucial feature, and it doesn't, so they don't buy your product.

Wordpress seems to have everyone's critical feature, or critical plug-in, or a developer intimately familiar with the platform who can be hired to write your critical plug-in. By the time "more specialised blogging engines" have the flexibility and pervasiveness of Wordpress, I bet they'll resemble. . . Wordpress.

Re: Dear WordPress

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily get the Svbtle theme in Wordpress by using wp-svbtle: http://wp-svbtle.themeskult.com/

I don't like the Svbtle style but I don't think you should suggest using something that stole the design and is not condoned by the original author. It's so funny how outraged hacker news becomes when a startups design is stolen but when dcurtis made svbtle a private platform they were all to happy to have people steal the design.

I've never followed this brouhaha--was it stolen (i.e., was code lifted from svbtle) or is it a reimplementation?

I mean, to me it looks pretentious and lame and I'd never use it, but it seems like it'd be legally actionable if there was actual copyright violations in the offing.

Re: Dear WordPress

#35
Interesting timing, given that I literally just reread this before coming onto HN: http://www.questioningtransphobia.com/?p=3890 As far as I'm aware, Wordpress.com never actually removed said blog. (Which I guess was probably a profitable decision - there was fuck-all outrage amongst anyone with a decent audience, compared to much more outrage when they did briefly pull a virulently transphobic radfem blog a few months ago. Ethically on the other hand...)

Edit 2: apparently there was an organised campaign which involved contacting a certain Matt Mullenweg to get the second blog in question reinstated. It succeeded. Lovely: http://weirdward.wordpress.com/2013/01/19/email-to-matt-mull...

Re: Dear WordPress

#36
post #17

Dear Wordpress- meet MVC, git, postgres, sane security and 100% testing. Please leave your old friend FTP- he was never all that safe or great to begin with.

The thing is, Wordpress is used by people who don't know and do not want to know what those things are. I dare say, even PHP is mostly used by people who don't know what most of what you wrote is.

I've seen even Magento forum members (Magento being a complex e-commerce solution written on the Zend framework) saying they do not know how to write more than a couple of lines of PHP.

Re: Dear WordPress

#37
post #20
post #6

I can appreciate what wordpress has achieved over the years, and what it has helped to create. But the current wordpress code base is a nightmare to work with, and doesn't scale well. Having said that, it is an excellent blogging platform and CMS, but this is something that is usually forgotten, resulting in it finding itself shoehorned into the most inappropriate places.

I get the feeling that those who "like" wordpress are either heavily invested in the platform or can't read code. Simpler, more specialised blogging engines are so beautifully designed, I don't see myself ever wanting to work with Wordpress again.

Can you give some examples please? I use wordpress a lot and just want to know what my other options are.

Re: Dear WordPress

#38
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly unlikely. Wordpress is the opposite of simplicity, its highly configurable and thats (one of the reasons) why its so widely used. HN or hacker community is a very small community and its hardly the microcosm of the internet.

But Hacker Community is the one that guides others towards new technologies. 10 years from now, Octopress may be prime blogging platform or second best!

More like the blogging community. The reason WP is so popular now is because MovableType stopped being free like 7 or 8 years ago.

Bloggers left in droves to the only other platform anywhere close to capable enough to handle their needs.

Now a whole lot of people who made money from blogging and therefore had money to spend created a market for developers to learn how to use WP.

The premium themes market, as controversial as it was when it first emerged, further drove investment of time in learning the system and building plugins.

Then, because people wanted to maximise their financial return from their initial investment, WP began to be used for all sorts of shit like as a CMS and eCommerce platform, for membership sites, you name it.

The cycle now feeds into itself: there is a huge market which attracts developers who in turn make WP a safe choice for webmasters who know they need a well supported platform, in turn contributing to increase in market size.

The most interesting thing about it all is that, despite it being such a monstrosity in it's implementation, from a user perspective it's a pretty good system - proof that with enough time and manpower one can, indeed, polish a turd.

Re: Dear WordPress

#39
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the feeling that those who "like" wordpress are either heavily invested in the platform or can't read code. Simpler, more specialised blogging engines are so beautifully designed, I don't see myself ever wanting to work with Wordpress again.

Simpler, more specialised blogging engines are so beautifully designed, I don't see myself ever wanting to work with Wordpress again. This reminds me of Joel Spolsky's "Bloatware and the 80/20 myth": http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000020.html , in which he says: A lot of software developers are seduced by the old "80/20" rule. It seems to make a lot of sense: 80% of the people use 20% of the features.…

> I bet they'll resemble. . . Wordpress.

Are we still talking about actual code here? Because if so, I'll take that bet.

Re: Dear WordPress

#40
post #3

Interesting. I've seen increasing number of posts on Github Pages[1], Octopress[2], Medium[3], and Svbtle[4]. It seems that (at least in the hacker community) there is an increasing shift to minimalist blogging stacks. I'm excited to see if the rest of the world follows. [1] http://pages.github.com/ [2] http://octopress.org/ [3] https://medium.com/ [4] https://svbtle.com/

> there is an increasing shift to minimalist blogging stacks

I regret that this is bubble talk. If you think non-software types are going to publish blog posts at a command line, I don't know what else to say.

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